redfish questions (ghey I know)

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pocket water
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redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by pocket water » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:33 pm

So I have been getting after the tailers and I'm a bit pissy about it <head down kicking a pine cone>. After learning quite a bit in the past couple months(or years) about redfish in the grass I have failed to land one otf. I have found some just a short hike behind my house. Long story short....I usually see one or two fish only on my local behind the house flats in about a 2 hr period, I am sure there are more but those are the ones I see with my untrained eyes actively tailing within eye shot. I usually get close, at times too close. As it goes I bet I get about 5 casts in calm wind conditions that are not noticed with my heart pounding like a mofo, then I end up spooking it I think.....Usually they just disappear without a big I am getting outta here swirl. The fish for the most part are big because of the tail size (like a hand fully spread out)and the fact they are usually in 2+ feet of water with a tail sticking out. WTF... why am I getting rejected :smile . Should I be more patient with my casts and try not to spook, like patiently casting 15+ times until the presentation is perfect? They dont seem to tail long and I am afraid I will lose sight and blow my chance. For the most part I am tossing spoon flies or crab variations(have not tried a clouser yet). Using 20 lb mono....is it too thick? can the see it? It is not super clear water, so I would guess not. At times I get out the water is already a bit high, could it be that they are full by then and are just being picky....should I be out just as the tide rolls in when the are a bit more hungry. The flats I fish are not ideal as it is patchy tall and short grass, with the biggest short grass flat of 10,000sq feet that needs a 7.5 at least tide to be fishable. Pissin me off, I'm about to duct tape a pocket knife on the butt of the rod.....I could have stabbed 5 or 6 by now. I am confident I will land one very soon, I am just not sure what the hell I am doing wrong. Curious as well if anyone has seen a redfish eat a grasshopper, I see tons out in the grass I wade. :stupid

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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by DeadRatsClacker » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:42 pm

pocket water wrote: WTF... why am I getting rejected


not that i know anymore :bomb
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pocket water
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by pocket water » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:51 pm

DeadRatsClacker wrote:
pocket water wrote: WTF... why am I getting rejected


not that i know anymore :bomb


Haha just about. I can catch fish in freshwater... salt...I need some work...

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Redchaser
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by Redchaser » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:12 pm

PW,

First let me say that the following is based on my observations in my fishery and may not apply everywhere, although I think some of the basics may be the same. I'm guessing you're in the Carolina's/Georgia area??

A few things, in most areas redfish aren't particularly line shy, but that 20lb may be too heavy for another reason. I get the most takes from redfish when the fly is on the bottom, particularly if they are tailing. For tailing fish I don't mess with the spoon fly, it won't get down quick enough for fish with their heads burried. Crab patterns are fine but make sure it's got a good bit of lead. I personally like flies with a little bulk that will push some water, weighted seaducers are great, but again, in 2 feet of water you'll need something that sinks quicker. A KWAN may be a good option, there is also a variation of the whistler that I tie that is called, oddly enough, the redchaser whistler. The truth is though, the most important thing is to get the fly where it needs to be Most of my redifish flies are tied on #2 hooks with lead dumbell eyes, normall the size most makers label as XS. That 20lb test will also be slowing the decent of your fly. I generally use 15 flouro.

The next to most important thing is the retrieve. Think creepy crawly critters like crabs and shrimp. I try to get my cast out in front of the fish, let the fly settle, then SLOWLY strip. I try to keep my fly dragging along on the bottom right in front of the fishes face. Redfish require a very close presentation, be it because they are near sighted or just lazy, they don't typically chase down flies from long distances the way bonefish will. I try to present and retrieve the fly so that it will pass within a foot of the fishes nose. I've seen more people on the front of my boat not get bit because they were being too conservative and not dropping the fly close enough to the fish, I am aggressive with them. If I see a tail pop up and dissapear, but think the fish is still in the same spot, I cast just over it (don't line him with the fly line) and retrieve the fly right through where he was, again slow retrieve. When redfish are tailing or crawling (backs out of the water) the fly needs to pass by it at or below eye level. I've seen folks make great cast then start stripping the fly so fast that it planed up in the water column (spoons are notorious for this) to a level higher than the fishes eyes and wouldn't get bit within inches of the fish. Now if the fish are feeding on free swimming prey like baitfish, or if they are bunched up in a school herding shrimp, then you can throw mid water flies like streamers or even surface poppers and get bit.

I tend to favor low tide levels, but again you are fishing an area with huge tides, if I get 2.5 feet of swing from high to low, that's big. Don't false cast more, that's fatal and the biggest mistake most troot fishermen make when they come to the salt. Saltwater fish are almost always moving, you ain't got time for a bunch of false cast. I always encourage people to practice double hauling, and delivering their cast with no more than 1 - 2 false cast.

There may well be a lot more fish around than you are seeing, but 2 feet is a lot of water for redfish to dissapear in, again back to why I preffer low tides. Get used to looking for very sublte movements. A big redfish can move through less than a foot of water and barely make a ripple. The giveaway that they are redfish isn't the size of the wake they push, but rather the way they move. Baitfish and even sheepshead move in a nervous erratic fashion. Redfish move like they own the place, very confidant, and tend to move in long strait lines. When a redfish does make its way around a corner it tends to make wide sweeping turns (think of a truck pulling a trailer). Those subtle dimpling fish can be hard to spot, but when you learn to see them you'll catch a bunch more fish, those fish tend to be relaxed and readly to eat.

Of course if you want the crash course hire Mad Mike or Gordon Churchill. A morning on the front of their boat will teach you more than a year of reading crap like this on the interweb.

Good luck,

Ron
Last edited by Redchaser on Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by BearsFan » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:44 pm

I'm with Ron, ditch the spoon.
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pocket water
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by pocket water » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:26 pm

thanks...It seems lots of folks think the spoon is fool proof. I was out with capt Tuck Scott in July and that is what he had me use (a dupree). I have some weighted stuff I will pull out...possibly tomorrow, I have the day off. I am enjoying the challenge of gathering info and getting after it. The fact that i have fish within a 5 minute walk is awesome, even if I don't see tons of fish I want to figure out my spot first. The sweet thing about this high tide stuff close to home is a day of fishing can be 2-3 hours, no boat, rod is always rigged, and if it rains I can run back to the house in minutes. From what others are saying...the fish seem to be staying deeper because of the heat, ankle deep is like bathwater, its been a hot ass summer. I will try a heavier fly next time. I hope to bring a report soon. I would love to hire Mike or another guide, but just cant hack it....stay at home wife, preschool is like a car payment, and tons of other other priorities are tops right now. Fishing is like #28 on the list. I am learning tons of what not to do, trial and error. I am damn close. Some of you make it look so easy. :cool

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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by Articulated Trico » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:40 am

Redchaser is spot on with his info. A few things I would consider is be more aggressive with yourcast. Go for and eye ball shot! Take your shot when the fish tails, with a quick accurate cast. Let your fly sink while with your rod tip in the water get your line tight without moving your fly. Then slide your fly two or three times. What is the fish doing? Any reaction or response? Bump your fly let it sink then another slide. Nothing? Get ready to pick up and present your fly! But do this in a manner that does don't make noise. Rod tip in the water get your line tight and water haul with rod acceleration just when your fly is on the surface
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by Mangina » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:23 am

Many more experienced then I on the subject

Advice looks good to me

My only comment is if you are new to redfishing, just know that redfish arent the only thing that tail. Mullet, sheepshead, black drum, etc to name a few tail as well. And they dont take the fly with the same zeal a redfish does.

Any chance its some other fish?

If it is a tailing red, get it down and throw right on his ass.

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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by Gaper's Pimp » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:43 am

I fish tailers quite a bit with a spoon, though not when they're scrounging in deep thick grass. Oftentimes it's the plop that gets them to look up when they're really digging hard. Beyond that, get the fly close and let it fall right into his field of view. Don't strip until you know he can see it.
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by mwk » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:37 pm

I've seen a lot of ppl chase catfish tails thinking they are redfish

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pocket water
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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by pocket water » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:33 pm

Articulated Trico wrote:Redchaser is spot on with his info. A few things I would consider is be more aggressive with yourcast. Go for and eye ball shot! Take your shot when the fish tails, with a quick accurate cast. Let your fly sink while with your rod tip in the water get your line tight without moving your fly. Then slide your fly two or three times. What is the fish doing? Any reaction or response? Bump your fly let it sink then another slide. Nothing? Get ready to pick up and present your fly! But do this in a manner that does don't make noise. Rod tip in the water get your line tight and water haul with rod acceleration just when your fly is on the surface
This is a new one to me...But I feel it may be a jedi secret.




Thanks for all the help, I hope I can keep it together, and it all will just come naturally the next time a tail is waving at me. :cool :cool Lord help me I am addicted and havent even landed one yet.

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Re: redfish questions (ghey I know)

Post by hookemdano » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:45 pm

mwk wrote:I've seen a lot of ppl chase catfish tails thinking they are redfish
And if it is a blackdrum I am just about certain those bastards can't see anything when they are rooting around in the mud. You can often provoke a strike with a crab pattern with rubber legs (think ugly whiskers on their chin) or if you drop a crab with a rattle right on their nose.

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