Hey Nemo

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Hogleg
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Hogleg » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:00 pm

Could have been much worse. Thank dog he didn't leave a dangling participle.
"girls with eating disorders will usually let you come in there in butt." -Jhnnythndr
"...my grandmother’s Tang always tasted like rusty water and dirty socks." - Average Joe
"with some limited exceptions steelhead live where the lady selection is sparce." - MTG

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kish
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by kish » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:02 pm

Damn. A brutal beatdown followed up with a sincere olive branch. That's some classy shit.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” Charles Kingsley

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yard4sale
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by yard4sale » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:11 pm

As much as I hate the ads I absolutely love this response here. Your honest but true tell it like it is style makes this a great site to post on.fucking grammar police, I ain't got no time for dat

I think ownership is big. People should feel some ownership and a duty to post up the goods on a regular basis. Yes, we all burn out(I did a couple years ago but still try to contribute when I can) but its the TRs, FCTP, Bakes that lead to freindships, etc that make this place so special. It isn't the DIAF comments, the intro BS, the stupid comment 2 weeks after the original post, the dead hookers and blow crap that so many of the new guys seem to flock to. Go back and read the posts from the first years if you think I'm wrong.

I guess you could also call me naive in thinking that some special things you just don't fuck up. These new ads clearly fuck up the feel of the board, ad blocker or not. Posting a TR now will feel dirty(and Fuck Simms, all they did was stop making guide waders to drive the market up an extra $500). I think even Nemo agrees given his comments below about putting ads elsewhere but not on the BB.

As much as it's his for paying the bills it's ours for posting the content that makes this place different than all the other BBs.

Nemo, You are right, I don't know you. That's why I use Nemo instead of Tom. I don't refer to anybody here by a real name unless I've actually met them. I agree that we would probably have a great day fishing together. I hope my upcoming TR makes you miss your hometown even more! I really didn't mean anything personal, I just was mad at the decision to go all ads on us. The fuck you part was maybe over the top a little, eh? Sorry about that.

I could really care less about the finances of the site. This is the only BB I have seen that regularly updates the style and keeps upping the ad content. I'm guessing that has more to do with the mag/blog side than the BB side? The other boards I visit(WFF, IFish, Wetsfly) all have minimal ads to keep the lights on, roughly in line with what we had before. Fair enough.

I guess I'm just tired of watching this place slowly sink into the quicksand so I decided to "put this shovel to some good use". Maybe someday I can be Mayor....

And as for the rest of the peanut gallery I'll let your stupid fucking GIFs and Aston Cunthair pics speak for themselves. You just keep telling yourselves the world is going to shit and there is nothing you can do about it.

That or maybe I was just mad because in the past the ads were at the bottom of the threads so in the new format I thought all the threads were capped at 3 posts per...

nemo wrote:Hmmm... Since Yard seems to be in "full disclosure" mode at the moment, I figured I'd join.

I'll begin by being as blunt as he was: I also hate the ads. Hate them. I knew I'd hate them, and I knew you guys would hate them. I shared this opinion with Grant when he first told me that he planned to place them in between posts. This isn't meant to throw Grant under the bus: It's my site, and I could have told him from the beginning not to do it. But he knows 1,000 times more about websites than I ever will, and he gave me a "You'll see, it's what all the BBs are doing" sort of answer. Which may or may not be true, because I don't have the time to check out a lot of other websites, much less message boards. All I know is that when I DID come across ads placed in between posts on message boards, I thought they were hideous and intrusive. But I let him give it a go. This was the email I sent to Grant at 5 pm today:

Well Grant, like I said:
1) I hate them. The response from the board? 100% negative. EVERYONE hates them. And they are way too big.
2) I don't care that "everyone else is doing this." "Everyone else" is Yahoo--we're The Drake.
3) I haven't seen ads this big on other BB boards. And when I have seen ads it's been on sites—like spey pages or iFish—that are ONLY message boards, so they don't have a choice if they want to make money off ads. We do. Let's keep them on the blogs and the DD and the back-issue content and everywhere BUT the forums. If we want them on the sides of the forum, fine, but not in between posts—it just looks way too commercial and lame. Please remove the ads from the forums.


Then I clicked on this post... and felt equal parts pride and anger. Of course I was pissed that anyone would begin by saying FUCK YOU (for "ruining this place") to the person who started this place. And who has paid for it for more than 17 years. But, as often happens when anyone gets angry at me about the board, I can hardly believe a person could feel so connected here that he is compelled to write the kind of post Yard did. He, like many others, feel an ownership of the Suk. That's the kind of stuff—"engaged audiences" in corporate-speak—that big companies spend millions of dollars to buy. Unfortunately for them, it's also the kind of shit that can't be bought. For it to be honest and real and authentic, it has to grow organically, like it has here.

Now, as to Yard's other comments...

1) "Haven't bought a mag since you started pimping pay for play shit"
If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't buy one. I wouldn't buy it either. Especially since The Drake was founded in part on being whatever the opposite of "pay to play" is. So if you could please enlighten me as to where, exactly, I've run a positive "pimping" review of an advertiser's product, I'd like to see it. The irony here is that I feel I've sometimes been too sensitive to avoid the "pay to play" scheme. Take the current issue: I wrote an honest piece on Christmas Island, quoting people from Frontiers, Fly Water, and Front Range Anglers, none of whom advertise in the magazine. I went out of my way not to talk to Yellow Dog, even though that company has supported The Drake for fifteen years, even though they helped get me there, even though they're friends, and even though they recently began booking XI. Was that fair to them? Probably not. But it was the most fair thing to do for my readers, because Fly Water and Frontiers both have years of experience on Christmas Island that Yellow Dog doesn't. Do I pay full price for every place I get to fish? Fuck no. And there are two simple reasons: 1) The income range of The Drake readership extends far beyond my own, and I don't think my audience would be too stoked to read five feature stories a year about my experiences fishing from a Forest Service campground or $1,200-a-week lodge. 2) I really, really like to fish.

2) "No clue why you think this is going to work."
I don't think it'll work, and I never did. See above.

3) "No fucking way I help these ad companies"
They aren't ad companies, asshole, they're flyfishing companies. I've never allowed the google ads or other bullshit non-flyfishing related ads on here. Since you're such a hardcore steelhead guru, maybe you can tell me how many fellow steelheaders you think have at least one Hardy Marquis or Bougle in their past? How many of them wear Simms? What would the history of steelhead flyfishing even look like without those two brands? Hopefully they'll figure out a way to survive without the "help" of your great TRs.

4) "What a money grabbing douche bag you must be. Maybe now you can actually pay the photogs for the pics you "bought" from them but just forgot to pay up on?"
These are my two favorite lines. (Except, in the first sentence, "money grabbing" should be hyphenated. In the second—try to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition.) As to the "money grabbing douche bag" part—not that it's any of your business, but for the past ten years, Grant has made 50% of the ad revenues from this site, and since 2011, Geoff Mueller has made 25% of the other half. For the past 2-3 years, that ad revenue has been roughly 20 grand a year, which leaves me (the company) with about five grand a year. Unfortunately, Peer 1, which hosts the site, costs $245 a month, so there goes $3,000 of my $5,000, leaving me with $2,000. But then I pay Grant and Geoff another $10K each for all the work they both do to keep this place running—Grant with his tech skillz and Geoff with his content skillz. If you're keeping track at home, that leaves an average loss on the website, each year, of $18,000. All so Yard can say "FUCK YOU" to me, for free. (And if it's not obvious, Grant and Geoff aren't making shit off this place either.) As to your "Maybe now you can actually pay the photogs for the pics you "bought" from them but just forgot to pay up on?" accusation, I make the same offer I made on the pay-to-play assertion: Please provide the names of all these photogs that I've forgotten to pay. Was it you? Some of your friends? I'm not saying that it's never happened, but I am saying that's it's never happened on purpose. You see a lot of the same photographers' names in my magazine. What do you suppose they would say to me the next time I asked them for a shot, if I hadn't paid them for the last one? Again, I'm not saying it's never happened—I'm unorganized and I'm slow. But I'm fair. And I worked as a freelancer myself long enough to know how important those checks are. If you or anyone else feels like sharing a story on this thread about when and how I screwed them over, have at it, and I'll make it right.

In closing, let me just say, Yard Sale, that you don't know me. And you aren't doing yourself any favors by pretending you do. You once sent me a PM mentioning a couple Oregon coastal rivers that are very dear to me. In postings, you say you listen to Pig Pen on a tape player (probably "Good Morning Little School Girl"). You quote Navin Johnson and you talk about drinking Rainier. These are all the things I really need to know about you to understand that we'd probably enjoy sharing a day on the river. The ads on the message board will go away, but I hope you don't. Just save the diatribes for things you know are true, rather than things you think are true.
You can't go back and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will

When your choices are between a pedophile religious zealot or a dem suddenly the pedophile religious zealot doesn't sound too bad. - PLOW

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Long Haired Dave
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Long Haired Dave » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:42 pm

southernstrain wrote:
Ruddy Duck wrote: And for what it's worth, I'd rather read about a forest service campground than a fancy lodge or island I will never go too in my lifetime.
Not reading about forest service campgrounds means there will actually be availability when you find it on your own

^^ AGREED!

all in all, this was a fun post :cool
My best efforts at casting looked like a retard skipping rope.

--Redchaser

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Upsetter
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Upsetter » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:59 pm

yard4sale wrote:(and Fuck Simms, all they did was stop making guide waders to drive the market up an extra $500)
Holy shit! How much do waders cost now? :bullshit

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CarpeTructa
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by CarpeTructa » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:16 pm

yard4sale wrote: I think ownership is big. People should feel some ownership and a duty to post up the goods on a regular basis. Yes, we all burn out(I did a couple years ago but still try to contribute when I can) but its the TRs, FCTP, Bakes that lead to freindships, etc that make this place so special. It isn't the DIAF comments, the intro BS, the stupid comment 2 weeks after the original post, the dead hookers and blow crap that so many of the new guys seem to flock to. Go back and read the posts from the first years if you think I'm wrong.
I think there are several reasons for so few TRs recently, and none of the above is it.
Somebody else is going to have to watch the door for me now. Make sure to keep the riff-raff out. Outcast (RIP)

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CarelessEthiopian
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by CarelessEthiopian » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:43 pm

yard4sale wrote:
I think ownership is big.

memo wrote: I can hardly believe a person could feel so connected here
Are you serious about that?


I put stickers on your car yesterday, man. That's a connection.
boy in long pants

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fallen513
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by fallen513 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:56 pm

Fuck this place. Nemo never paid me for my shitty dad/farmer story he never published.

And, if you twats want a suggestion, how about you shitcan these horrible colors and give me my nice light text contrasting against a dark background?


Seriously, fuck off.
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I love flyfishing so much I want it to die. -thalweg

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Da Ax
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Da Ax » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:14 pm

Hogleg wrote:Could have been much worse. Thank dog he didn't leave a dangling participle.
I be hatin' when the participles be hanging...
The difference between decency and indecency is opportunity...

One could search their entire lives for the perfect drift, and it would not be a wasted life.

"If I owned this place and Hell, I'd rent this place out and live in Hell." -Toombs

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Average Joe
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Average Joe » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:33 pm

fallen513 wrote:Fuck this place. Nemo never paid me for my shitty dad/farmer story he never published.

And, if you twats want a suggestion, how about you shitcan these horrible colors and give me my nice light text contrasting against a dark background?


Seriously, fuck off.
He rejected my shit too, but at least he was kind enough to send me a link.

http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Essays-Du ... B004I6DDGU

He also told me that I should fish more.

It was all good advice.

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Nemo
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by Nemo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 am

AJ--you know I didn't really do that. But I will now, since I know that book exists.

Personally, I prefer this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKpYBStDLVA
"Any mods on this forum or what? It's just a free for all of people being assholes to one another?"

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bullship
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Re: Hey Nemo

Post by bullship » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:49 am

This is pretty great. :cheer

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