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#387514
Wooly, you made excellent points. There are plenty of great fisherman that are horrible teachers. And I know some guys that are not hot shots but come back to the shop with happy clients.

You may be right about guide schools. I don't know, I never attended one. I don't have a problem with Cutthroat either, I know some folks there too. Like I said, I'm just aiming high. I'm looking for someone like me, an ex full-timer. Someone with a job, just looking for some extra work. We don't have the time or resources to train someone. This is not a job for a gung-ho young buck. It's pretty limited. Maybe I should have said part-part-time. Or not. We don't know yet how busy we will be. I thought I knew plenty of people I could call on, but nothing is working out.

Besides schools, and short of starting your own business, the only way I see someone getting a guide(douchebag) gig is to get lucky. Someone has to take a chance and throw him a bone. That's basically how I started. I had to be in the shop and sell my first trip, then go see what I was made of. I had lots of education, and some great mentors but it was all after the fact. Someone took a chance on me and it sent me down a whole different path in life. Does this even happen anymore? Anyway my point is, I'm opening up to more options. I did get one respectable PM from someone looking for a shot. I hope I can give it to him.
User avatar
By blumpkin
#387532
Woolybug25 wrote: Sorry... but if I am spending money on a guide, I will take the younger guy right out of guide school that takes his job (and my trip) seriously over the college dropout that moved out west to become a "Trout Bum". Plus, I don't have to worry about my guide being to high to function, steal my beer or fall asleep in the boat when he is suppose to be spotting fish for me.
I very respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you said but I will just quote that part because I like it.

Cutthroat Anglers is probably the nicest shop I have ever been in, and I have no problem with Trapper John MD or whatever the fuck that guys name is.

If they were running a guide school for their guides, then great idea good on ya nice for the outfitter to mold their guides into what they want them to be.

But to market these "guide schools" the way they do is bullshit. Is it like any other form of higher education are there prerequisite classes or are they just taking $1800 off of any shmoo that shows up cash in hand till they fill the class. The world is not fair, there are not enough guide jobs available for every kid that has the pipe dream of being a guide. You want to guide PROVE IT!!! Throw your life completely out the window and pursue it on your own. You know you are going to have to have CPR/First Aid so knock that out first. You also need a reliable vehicle that is respectable enough for the clientele of the shop you are guiding for, these are Doctors/Lawyers and their families, lots of guiding gigs you are not going to have to rely on your vehicle, but always assume that you will. Do your own fucking networking, live eat and breathe fishing in the area you are interested in guiding for at least a year, get a shit job that you do not care about or mooch off your parents do whatever it takes. Go to the shops and the bars and get to know the guides, ideally become roomates with them. In Summit County CO I recommend the Gold Pan In Breck and the Moose Jaw in Frisco, spend a bunch of time in Hartsel and Parshall also. Buy a raft or a drift boat depending on your rivers and do a shit load of floats with your new found buddies. Get whatever certification is necessary.

From there it is on the individual, if you want to introduce people to fly fishing badly enough you can make it happen. Six days and $1800 aint gonna cut it. You have to drop out of society at large and immerse youself in the fly fishing sub culture of the place you are interested in guiding, whether you are a good guide or not depends on you as an individual but shitty or not if you put your heart and soul into it you can make it happen.

I wonder what Stu Apte would have to say about guide schools, successfull commercial pilot who risked everything to become a world famous Tarpon Guide.

If you are not willing to drop out of life as normal folks understand it and be a trout bum of sorts... Stay out of it.
User avatar
By Woolybug25
#387560
I hear ya Blump, but I still am on the other side. I doubt Stu learned to be a pilot through on the job training.

From a cost standpoint, I disagree as well. Dropping off the grid, living in desolate towns like Parshalls, buying a boat (how a rat turd part time fly shop dude could afford a raft suitable for clients is beyond me), paying all of certifications, etc are all way more time intensive as well as more expensive than $1800. Guiding is a profession, and like any profession, there are people that excel at it without technical education.

With that said, I don't see why someone that chooses to fast track their skill set should be put down. There are a lot of salespeople that become that way by years of climbing the ladder, only to have the same job as a college grads first gig. Should the college grad be looked down at because he chose to get an education vs years of living with far less income/opportunity? Doing something the hard way doesn't always make someone better, it in fact, can be relevant evidence of their poor decision making despite their drive to succeed.

In a final note, its not like the guys that complete Cutthroats school don't have opportunity. In fact, from knowing how they run it, I would be shocked if any of the graduates from the school have ever not had an opportunity for employment with an outfitter. They are not guaranteed a great gig on their river of choice, but Cutthroat works with them to help them find a good entry-level position somewhere in the country.

No worries though Blump, still got mad love for ya homie :cool
User avatar
By blumpkin
#387582
Woolybug25 wrote: No worries though Blump, still got mad love for ya homie :cool
I can assure you the feeling is mutual.

If you do it WB25's way you will probably end up successful at any endeavor you pursue...

If you do it blumpkin's way you will end up 43 changing oil and tires on dump trucks in Las Vegas...

The choice is yours young guide wanna be's

Cutthroat Anglers owes us both $5 seppo
for spamming the living shit out of their guide school.
User avatar
By jhnnythndr
#387584
Guide school or no guide school the real issue here is that this dude swoops in like he fucking owns the place. Has not lurked (obviously) and has no interest in our little "community" here. He is a classifieds scanner, looking for a deal. Well more power to ya dude. Some fine deals have been scored (miraculously) from this board - but typically we are offering them to each other. Because that's what family does.

I know shit gets sold to "noobs" and I mean the ones who never have any intent of putting up an intro. It all gets handled by pm. So we- the bloodthirsty masses who just want some decent tunes and decent recipes don't have to be confronted with the bullshit.

CE "knew" what was going to happen, or did he? He like most of us, likely saw this turning into a TR or spam or gardening thread or whatever

How could any of us seen that it would turn into a philosophical disco on the how and why guiding? Anyway. This place has been dead lately so I'm pretty stoked that somethings going on.

Does anyone think this might have gone a little differently if this guy had marketed himself a little differently in a pm, granted, I have no idea what the pm he sent CE was like...

But if heoutlined his knowledge of the area, points of interest, As well as the fishery, his background As an angler and though he has never "guided" officially- included an anecdote or two outlining experiences he has had helping introduce others to FlyFishing, or introduce a new technique to a less experienced angler, and then mentioned- oh and by the way I'm going to attend xyz guide school "to insure my credentials/ certifications are in order"

He might have had a better chance... Oh and if the one pic in his "intro" of a fish demonstrated any knowledge of proper fish handling, well ThT would not have hurt his chances either.
User avatar
By SLSS
#387585
blumpkin wrote:
Woolybug25 wrote: No worries though Blump, still got mad love for ya homie :cool
I can assure you the feeling is mutual.
Spring is such a magical season.
User avatar
By blumpkin
#387588
[quote="SLSS"][quote="blumpkin"][quote="Woolybug25"]
No worries though Blump, still got mad love for ya homie :cool[/quote]


I can assure you the feeling is mutual.[/quote]


Spring is such a magical season.[/quote]


Is'nt it though...




User avatar
By ptfox11
#387646
Gents, i ment no harm in replying to CE's guide posting nor did i knowingly disobey the rules for noobs. Maybe i did jump the gun and threw myself into the mix a little too quickly, for that i apologize. Just a guy from that learned of his love for fishing while growing up in NE Ohio spinning for bass. Moved to Co. about 5 years ago and have fished with a fly rod for the past 3 of those years. HAVENT PUT IT DOWN SINCE. My first lesson (or lack thereof) came from my father in law on the Little Juniata River in central PA, same day i "caught" my first fish on a fly. It was a snagged sucker and once i felt that rod bend and bounce i knew i had found my type of fishing. I currently spend about 7 of my 8 hours at work researching places to fish, studying maps, looking at bugs and their stages of development etc etc, I even wake up in the middle of the night and tie flies when i cant sleep becasue i'm thinking about fishing.

A friend of mine and i started fly fishing right around the same time but he hasnt progressed as well as i have (my opinion). When we do get a chance to fish together now he's always asking me questions and what flies to use and i love being able to help him catch fish. Its awesome watching the things i've learned get passed down and work for him. I've even started teaching my mother how to fly fish.

Anyway, i figured with my lack of experience the guide school route would be the quickest way for me to get some cred. I think it shows dedication and a desire to become the best guide i can. As far as i'm concerned theres nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and wanting to learn.

In any case i'm quite suprised at the amount of repsonse that was generated from a simple reply to a job opening.
User avatar
By blumpkin
#387649
Take your time, lurk for a while and do a proper intro...
I followed your same path, and would love to watch your exploits.
Don't worry about all the hooplah, this is how we entertain ourselves.

Shoot me a PM if need anything...
User avatar
By jhnnythndr
#387660
Blump: oh just look how cute he is, can we keep him? Please?

Mob: ugh. Another one?

Teh Suk: you want him? He's the runt, probably never amount to much. Raising your own noob is alot of responsibility, you gotta feed him, CLEAN UP AFTER HIM, see to his training. (shrugs)
I suppose it'd be a waste of time trying to talk you out of it. Ah hell, take him, let me know how he turns out for ya.
And MOB, if he gets out of hand just let me know, I'll come tKe him off your hAnds

Or

Uncle Blump: ah, dont pay them other boys any mind. Come on in here and have a glass of this lemonaid and let me tell you a story.

Or

Mr. Blumpkin: son, I know Tryouts went worse than you hoped this year. You just keep practicing and I bet next year you'll make the team. Your just a late bloomer, you watch, you'll hit that growth spurt, and catch right up the other boys. I know I know, jhnny is already shaving and Lando already kissed a girl, you'll be there too, before you know.

I'm running out of storylines. Take it from here blump
User avatar
By blumpkin
#387665
I will work on it at work,

I am thinking of a Rocky/Karate Kid theme

with me as the burned out trainer

and the noob as "the great white hope"

with a long training montage

the noob chasing chickens and such

"greasy lightning speed"




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