shock collars

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Heero[CntRmbrPwd]
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Re: shock collars

Post by Heero[CntRmbrPwd] » Wed May 21, 2014 1:12 pm

I still keep one on my dog but the only time there is zapping is because the stupid blockhead still hasnt learned not to chase the effing deer.

Horses require a preemptive beep button press with a ready on the zap button. Cows too. She hasnt chased either yet, luckily. Dumb dog.

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pbrstreetgang
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Re: shock collars

Post by pbrstreetgang » Wed May 21, 2014 1:45 pm

side note - shock collars do not work well in falconry.

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Aguirre
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Re: shock collars

Post by Aguirre » Wed May 21, 2014 2:38 pm

Curious thread and thoroughly interesting.
Wondering what the implications could be for use on Aguirre and continued sobriety?
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Aguirre
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Re: shock collars

Post by Aguirre » Wed May 21, 2014 2:42 pm

Considering my love of an intense buzz and proclivity towards extremes and high risk behaviors I would think a very high potency collar, some kind Gitmo level training would be recommended, maybe?
I've failed the piece where the animal connects pain with bad behavior, then ceases the behavior.

Like, a lot of times.
"I've been blessed with many things in this life. An arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a Burmese Python and the mind of a fuckin scientist."
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Woolybug25
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Re: shock collars

Post by Woolybug25 » Wed May 21, 2014 4:00 pm

CarelessEthiopian wrote:Just wanted to follow up on this.

We axed the collar. It worked to a degree, but ultimately I didn't like shocking my dog, even at a very low level.

For us, treats has been the way to go. Positive reinforcement, rather than negative. Treats have worked way better than the collar. I'm talking high quality extra special treats; bacon, turkey, cheese, hot dogs, jerky. Treat early and often. It has made for much happier dogs and humans.
I've actually gone the other direction. My pup went to a 3 week bootcamp at http://connectwithyourk9.com/category/blog/ and returned a completely different dog. They used a balanced approach with both strict collar training and positive reinforcement training.

I liked their philosophy that dogs, like humans, need both negative and positive reinforcement. They also stress that occasional collar use or using corrections only in major situations is counterproductive. It has to be done consistently and not just as punishment. Using it to teach sit, stay, place and heal is paramount to it's success. They use top of the line collars with over 200 sensitivity levels and a vibrate only button. Simply electrocuting a dog every time it does something bad wont do anything, it's about consistent reinforcement of all commands. Followed with positive reinforcement when they do it correct.

I think we have all seen what a human looks like when all they ever get is positive reinforcement; you get an entitled, self absorbed, non conforming brat. Same thing can happen with a dog, imo. (same goes for all negative reinforcement).

My dog is still a punk bitch, mind.
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Redchaser
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Re: shock collars

Post by Redchaser » Wed May 21, 2014 4:16 pm

Aguirre wrote:Considering my love of an intense buzz and proclivity towards extremes and high risk behaviors I would think a very high potency collar, some kind Gitmo level training would be recommended, maybe?
I've failed the piece where the animal connects pain with bad behavior, then ceases the behavior.

Like, a lot of times.
Really amaizing isn't it? If somebody is allergic to strawberries and breaks out in spots every time they eat them, chances are they will learn quickly and quit eating strawberries. Whenever I drank I was prone to breaking out in spots. Spots like Dallas, New Orleans, or if it was a really bad night, Bossier City Louisiana, with consequences far worse than a rash, but fuck all if I would learn my lesson and quit. Mental obsession is a wicked thing.
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B.M. Barrelcooker
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Re: shock collars

Post by B.M. Barrelcooker » Wed May 21, 2014 6:45 pm

I have trained both ways. A collar is a tool.

I'm a big fan of the nick and tone.
Long lead with a choke collar is great too.

Best tool in the pouch is time . The dog has to know you to know what you want.
"worst that can happen is a big fat zero and a fine walk out of doors"---Chadroc

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Aguirre
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Re: shock collars

Post by Aguirre » Wed May 21, 2014 7:14 pm

Redchaser wrote: Mental obsession is a wicked thing.
And therein lies the rub.
"I've been blessed with many things in this life. An arm like a damn rocket, a cock like a Burmese Python and the mind of a fuckin scientist."
-Kenny Fuckin Powers

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jhnnythndr
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Re: shock collars

Post by jhnnythndr » Thu May 22, 2014 7:36 am

I've stayed out of this one, but I'm feeling weak right now. don't think anyone who had met clyde would disagree that he has some confidence issues. You've done a good job socializing him and exposing him to differnet scenarios- as far as that goes, but obedience- not candy treat crap, or dominance BS- will put some confidence in a dog quickly. Collar Condition that dog. Get a good collar, lime dogtra or Tritronics- sportdog will fail you and your dog miserably. let clyde wear the collar for about 4-8 hours a day fro a couple weeks and then one day while you are sittign and sipping a beer onthe bank, get out the transmitter, and while clyde is just sitting around distracted and being a dog, givre him a really really low nick, continue to elevate the stimulation until you get a response, this will be a blink or maybe an earflick or just a head tilt- but it will be there. that's you workin glevel, or possibbly one high. carry on with your day. the next day, in the yard, or other known and comfortable place, go chill for a litttle while, engage with him, get him a little cheerful, but not crazy, then tell him to sit, while applyin gcontimous pressure with the collar, if he needs help- help him sit his ass down, and as soonas its on the ground stop with the button while saying good dog good dog... then say OK let him up from the sit and go walk around and do some stuff, then another sit, with continous pressure. then walk around, then a freebie sit. the idea you are getting across while working with a level of pressure that is "distracting" is that A) too turn off pressure- comply and B) you can beat the pressure with quick compliance. you will work on sit, heel and kennel in this fashion, resulting in a well pressure conditioned dog. so that is an oerview, but no where near complete enough for you to work from.This step is pretty crucial- but isn't the end all- though just in that process you are going to get really happy with your dog. after the conditioning process you will typically be working with a nick when needing a correction. by establishing a standard of behavior with obediance training CLyde will develop a ton of confidence- because he will KNOW what is expected of him, and not be out there "guessing." Treats typically won't do much for you in that area, becasue there is no standard set- the dog essentially doesn't ever learn what isn't desireable- but does learn that it can pester you in a variety of ways, which will get you to treat him. Addtionally since there isn't any good solid standard, the dog tries all manner of new ways to test you to see what gets a treat- this kind of ambiguity doesn't do much for confidence. TReats are too impossible to time well to link them to a desired behavior. "good dog" is always there at the right moment, as is "no" with or without a nick. none of this is shit I am guessing about or was told by someone to try. I don't think there are many guys on the board with a dog that they trained that is as competitive as pepper- or practical in the field... I know you aren't looking to make a hunting dog- but everything I do from a training standpoint is designed to build drive confidence and responsiveness.

this may be worth a phone call or not as you decide.
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Spudnik
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Re: shock collars

Post by Spudnik » Fri May 23, 2014 8:20 pm

I just got a Dogtra collar. Thing is the knees of many, many bees. Some people are ok with a mostly well-behaved dog, and that's fine. Other people need a completely well-behaved dog. Whatever makes you happy... My dog wears a collar everywhere, and the last time I used it was a few weeks ago when she treed a porky. If she had a momentary lapse and forgets something, I can shock at low levels to reinforce. The porky got her a decent shock. Easy as pie.
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johnbmadwis
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Re: shock collars

Post by johnbmadwis » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:47 pm

I liked the vibrate on my dogtra. It would just kind of get him out of his own crazed head for a second then he'd get back on track. BTW, I didn't like those chirpy beeps/hawk screams when they hold - hurts my ears at 10 yards. I used a bell, worked fine for my purposes and sounded more in sync with the environs. Last thing I want to hear in the field is some digital/electronic noise. I go there to get away from that shit.

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flybug.pa.
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Re: shock collars

Post by flybug.pa. » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:24 am

I always used a bell over the years, maybe I am just old fashioned. one thing never changes, the off season training , in the field and obedience. you will reap what you sow.i guarantee
If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it.
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