Obama-care requesting help

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SOBF
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by SOBF » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:42 pm

'm not against corporate profits. Not at all when they are earned responsibly. That's America and a good part of what makes it great. Profit on health care is immoral in my view. I can't see how it can be justified.
How about private profits? I hate paying guides$400/day to float me. Much rather have the gov't jump in and dictate a 150/day charge (much like medicaid)so that it will allow more of us that can't afford the high prices you fuckers charge to float us down a river.Oh and lunch will be included per government mandates.

I want a good lunch too !!

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MTgrayling
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by MTgrayling » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:45 pm

I'll say it again. I am not a guide.

Like I told my congressman today. Free markets are good for most things, health care is obviously not one of them. He didn't listen, that blinky fucker.
Ryan found his way out; your escape awaits...

Let there be HIGH water!

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MTgrayling
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by MTgrayling » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:53 pm

eponymous wrote:MT: You are over "there" and you're not comin' back is ya?
It's nice over here. Feel the peace and love?
Ryan found his way out; your escape awaits...

Let there be HIGH water!

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Rhyacophila
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by Rhyacophila » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:05 pm

MTgrayling wrote:Free markets are good for most things, health care is obviously not one of them.
It's not obvious to me, but noone has ever accused me of bein really bright. Why don't you explain this with more than a sentence, and make it clear to me how you would drive innovation in health care without a profit motive?
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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MTgrayling
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by MTgrayling » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:09 pm

Rhyacophila wrote:
MTgrayling wrote:Free markets are good for most things, health care is obviously not one of them.
It's not obvious to me, but noone has ever accused me of bein really bright. Why don't you explain this with more than a sentence, and make it clear to me how you would drive innovation in health care without a profit motive?
The rising costs didn't clue you in? Declining quality of care? People dying for no reason other than profit?

I doubt very many medical researchers are motivated by money.
Ryan found his way out; your escape awaits...

Let there be HIGH water!

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Rhyacophila
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by Rhyacophila » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:23 pm

MTgrayling wrote:
Rhyacophila wrote:
MTgrayling wrote:Free markets are good for most things, health care is obviously not one of them.
It's not obvious to me, but noone has ever accused me of bein really bright. Why don't you explain this with more than a sentence, and make it clear to me how you would drive innovation in health care without a profit motive?
The rising costs didn't clue you in? Declining quality of care? People dying for no reason other than profit?

I doubt very many medical researchers are motivated by money.
So you can't explain it?

Rising costs are generally associated with a free market? Or with increased regulation?

In a competetive marketplace, does quality usually decline? Or when competitors are locked out by strict regulation does quality decline?

When you say "medical researcher" (not motivated by money) do you mean lab tech, or PI? Are you suggesting those who start biotech and pharma companies are not motivated by money? Medical devices? I might agree that their primary motivation is not money - if it were they would go into software or entertainment or both (gaming). They would be much more likely to make money in the entertaiment biz, but money still motivates - you're a bigger fool than you appear if you think it doesn't.
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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ditchdoc
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by ditchdoc » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:38 pm

Rhyacophila wrote:
Henry's Fork Dork wrote:I'd like to see everyone covered so this type of BS doesn't go on any longer.
I'd like to see everyone underinsured billed (you dont pay, or get yourself insured - you're refused future treatment) and illegals deported immediately (with their litter). World population growth is unregulated and out of fuckin control (there's the real problem if you're concerned about global climate change), if the gubmint wants to regulate something they should regulate population dynamics. How about One-nation One-world One health care system; everyone everywhere is covered for anything they want - and they can have it tomorrow? The hole werld gets the Senate Health care policy. How about me and my family get the same coverage as the murderous sleazeball Ted Kennedy? I'll still pay the $18K annually, just let me have THAT coverage.

I'd like to see people in Montana (or anywhere else) be able to buy insurance from any company anywhere in the world. I'd like to be able to shop around for the best policy at the best price and pay for that policy without state borders defining where I can purchase my policy.

I wood not like to see govt control of health care. I do not want the RMV staff handling my policy, my records, or my decisions.

Government hires by quota - gotta have X% disabled, Y% minority, and Z% females, with NO preference given to qualification - I don't want that group handling health care.

How about individuals being responsible for their own welfare and working to conntribute to society as a whole and not draining public resources because they don't "feel like" pulling their weight? How about people that can not support the children they have STOP having more?

Don't YOU think it's criminal to get pregnant when you can't afford to feed your children? I do.

Maybe I'm just insensitive. Or maybe I just feel bad for kids who are brought into this world by folks who are irresponsible and generally useless.



Ramble, ramble, blahblahblah, WTF are you talking about. You feel sorry for kids? Everything else you said in this thread says you hate everything. Really, I don't know how you can even stand to live here. I have news for you pal. Not everyone is motivated by profit. And not everyone, who does not live their lives as you do, are worthless turds. If you are not careful, you will die a very bitter man.
Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is forever.

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Rhyacophila
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by Rhyacophila » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:50 pm

you cant read?
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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Mattb
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by Mattb » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:09 am

Rhyacophila wrote:
MTgrayling wrote:Free markets are good for most things, health care is obviously not one of them.
It's not obvious to me, but noone has ever accused me of bein really bright. Why don't you explain this with more than a sentence, and make it clear to me how you would drive innovation in health care without a profit motive?
Rather than try to explain it, I'll let a Nobel Laureate economist give it a whack: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0 ... ealthcare/

The fact of the matter is, government funding through places like the NIH drives the vast majority of pure research in the health care field as it is. Read this piece - http://newledger.com/2009/07/how-medica ... n-mcardle/ if you'd like a more in depth explanation.
eponymous wrote:What a gov't run system will bring down is the quality of care. You cannot have more for less.
The many, many other systems around the world that are government run would seem to disprove this. Granted, "government run" could mean a lot of things, some of which might not be desirable, but increased government involvement, in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean that quality of care will decline. That's not to say that it's the only way to do it, Germany, the Netherlands and Switzerland have all figured out other ways - all of which seem to work better than ours in many respects.

If you'd like to read a well written, well researched, paper on how the quality of U.S. health care compares internationally, you can find one here - http://www.rwjf.org/qualityequality/pro ... p?id=47508 it's a bit on the long side, but well worth reading.
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
-Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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SOBF
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by SOBF » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:16 pm

Declining quality of care? People dying for no reason other than profit?
Why are people living so much longer(which is fucking us on ss and medicaid) if our system sucks so bad ??
The people I know involved get all their care paid for...they are not dying and suffering from poor care...Come on pal

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MTgrayling
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by MTgrayling » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 pm

You never heard of people being denied procedures by insurance companies or having their coverage dropped when they get ill because of a typo, or reaching their policy limit when they need care? It never ever should happen, but it does. Once they get to medicare age then yes things are easier carewise.

Looks like we're 42nd or 50th, depending on the source, in life expectancy with an average of 78.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00113.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

There are many factors involved here, obesity, diet, lack of exercise, etc.. You can't legislate diet, but we can fix the health system.
Ryan found his way out; your escape awaits...

Let there be HIGH water!

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SOBF
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Re: Obama-care requesting help

Post by SOBF » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:25 pm

If health care insurance is a right...where does housing and food fall on the "right" scale. Seems to me if you don't have anything to eat you're pretty well fucked. Should gov't supply us with food and shelter ??

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