The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

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eponymous
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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by eponymous » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:02 pm

So let me get this straight. If you don't like excessive government intrusion into your life vis a vis being taxed out the wazoo you are stoopid? Not sure I make the connection Mr. Up. Not sayin' there are not some dopes in the group but there are some normal Americans like me and you in that crew. Lots of 'em. (Not that you would know it if you only get your news from MSNBC/CBS/NBC/ABC/NPR/NYT/WashPost. (not sayin' that of you, just in general))
"Baseball gives every American boy a chance to excel, not just to be as good as someone else but to be better than someone else. This is the nature of man and the name of the game." Ted Williams

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Upsetter
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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Upsetter » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:33 am

eponymous wrote:Don't know about you but that sends chills up my spine. Don't mean to go all Glen Beck on ya but t hat is EXACTLY why power needs to remain with the states.......If not we should simply remove all state boundaries and be exactly the same and do exactly what govco tells us to do......flipping scary......absolutely flipping scary.
Going back to the point hammer made earlier, with respect to this distrust you have of govt, what diff does it make if a state is using police power to coerce your behavior or the feds? For real, if a cop or a fed agent is pointing a gun at you and about to arrest you for living how you want to live, and you believe you are living right, what does it matter if its a city cop or a fed agent? Or, if you are about to be turned away from a service you desperately need for whatever reason, what does it matter if that reason has state or federal law backing it? Would you rather we lived in 50 separate countries only bound by common defense? Less connected than the EU for example? You do realize what that would do to us economically, right?

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by eponymous » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:16 pm

Upsetter wrote:You do realize what that would do to us economically, right?
If by that you mean make the little old coupla hundred year old you ess and eh the most vibrant, successful and sought after place to live on mother earth then yes sir I do know what that would do to us economically. I have history to guide me.
"Baseball gives every American boy a chance to excel, not just to be as good as someone else but to be better than someone else. This is the nature of man and the name of the game." Ted Williams

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Rhyacophila » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:55 pm

BigCliff wrote:Yeah, air traffic control, interstate highways, and flood levees are silly.
Flood levees ARE silly.

Even the uncivilized peeples who lived around the Nile and the Native Americans knew enough not to build permanent housing on a flood plain.

We're so much smarter now. :dripping with sarchasm
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by SOBF » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:22 am

I'm currently involved in a fight to keep a dam from being built on a local river. Some local irrigators say it is needed. I'm willing to bet that just about all of these folks would consider themselves "conservative" at the very least, and a number of them would be the type to loudly complain about Obama's "socialism." Yet, in pleading with the State and the Bureau of Rec to spend upwards of a billion dollars to provide them with their local water needs, they see no contradiction. In a real teabag world, shouldn't those irrigators be expected to pool their resources and pay for the dam themselves, especially if they are the ones using the resource, instead of expecting the government (and us taxpayers) to do it for them? How would expecting the government to provide the dam not fall under the same blanket definition of "socialism" being tossed around for so many other things right now?
The farmers should have to provide their own irrigation and have no right to ask the taxpayer to help them.

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Rhyacophila » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:10 am

SOBF wrote:
I'm currently involved in a fight to keep a dam from being built on a local river. Some local irrigators say it is needed. I'm willing to bet that just about all of these folks would consider themselves "conservative" at the very least, and a number of them would be the type to loudly complain about Obama's "socialism." Yet, in pleading with the State and the Bureau of Rec to spend upwards of a billion dollars to provide them with their local water needs, they see no contradiction. In a real teabag world, shouldn't those irrigators be expected to pool their resources and pay for the dam themselves, especially if they are the ones using the resource, instead of expecting the government (and us taxpayers) to do it for them? How would expecting the government to provide the dam not fall under the same blanket definition of "socialism" being tossed around for so many other things right now?
The farmers should have to provide their own irrigation and have no right to ask the taxpayer to help them.
How would the farmers recoup that expense selling broccoli and corn (substitute whatever they're actually peddling)?
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by jerome » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:45 am

SOBF wrote:
I'm currently involved in a fight to keep a dam from being built on a local river. Some local irrigators say it is needed. I'm willing to bet that just about all of these folks would consider themselves "conservative" at the very least, and a number of them would be the type to loudly complain about Obama's "socialism." Yet, in pleading with the State and the Bureau of Rec to spend upwards of a billion dollars to provide them with their local water needs, they see no contradiction. In a real teabag world, shouldn't those irrigators be expected to pool their resources and pay for the dam themselves, especially if they are the ones using the resource, instead of expecting the government (and us taxpayers) to do it for them? How would expecting the government to provide the dam not fall under the same blanket definition of "socialism" being tossed around for so many other things right now?
The farmers should have to provide their own irrigation and have no right to ask the taxpayer to help them.
Most places the farmer does provide his own irrigation, etc.... Dairies even have to manage/recyle their waste.... No help from anyone 99% of the time. The most labor intensive sectors and livestock involved sectors are getting raped, Record Low prices, non one knows why and feed is going through roof, scarcity created by ethanol/bio-diesel... its even being sold to china,canada, Opec nations at a discount. No crop insurance, no nothing for most of producers.... its the big Co-op's,etc that fuck everyone and use the system. Kraft is the fucking evil....

In Ga, there are talks of to 3 dams on the Flint.... pretty sad if one happens... They say its for water, they dont know you cant make water, i guess....yet my home state is ran by lawyers/developers and those that are both. So i am thinking they need some cheap lakefront land to buy up and re-coop losing there asses last yr. fucking fuckers... they can all burn in hell...
"Being tossed from The Drake for excessive assholery is a bit like being thrown out of the Rolling Stones for profligate abuse of drugs and booze." - Ajax

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Smithhammer » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:36 pm

Rhyacophila wrote:
How would the farmers recoup that expense selling broccoli and corn (substitute whatever they're actually peddling)?
Exactly. Yet it happens all the time. Why did we taxpayers pay for the 4 dams on the lower Snake? 2 reasons - for irrigation needs, and so that boats would be able to traffic all the way up to Lewiston, Idaho, even though there are several roads that already lead there. If these needs were so essential, and if these expenses resulted in increased gains, then why didn't the irrigators and the shipping industry pay for these dams? On top of that, we taxpayers are now also footing the bill for millions of dollars in ridiculous attempts at salmon recovery, which was clearly caused by the dams that we paid for. Yet has public outcry been effective in getting the dams removed which we paid for? No - the private industries that have received the benefits of those dams that they didn't pay for have the biggest voice in the future fate of those dams. As a result these salmonids are currently on the verge of extinction, to the degree that we haven't been able to successfully get an existing federal law - the Endangered Species Act, enforced, when the dams are in obvious violation of it.

By the way, before someone accuses me of being a unilateral dam hater- I don't think that all dams are inherently evil. There are ways to build them appropriately, and done well, they can be a productive source of power. But they have also too often been a perfect example of huge amounts of taxpayer dollars spent on benefiting select private industries.

Which is why I always think it's hilarious when the far-right wing brings up all these politically convenient allegations of "socialism," yet when you try to point out all the massive government subsidies for industry, billions in corporate bailouts, the millions of acres of public land given over to ranchers for pennies on the acre, etc, etc, etc - you either get a blank stare, or some intellectually retarded argument for why the particular things that upset them are socialism, while all the myriad other examples of the government subsidizing the private sector aren't. "Socialism" doesn't just apply to benefits to individual citizens - it applies to private industry as well, unless of course you're talking about the current, intellectually lazy, right-wing definition we hear on Fox news everyday.

Not that I think that industry should just be able to pay for and get whatever it wants by any means - it should still be subject to oversight by a governing body, which is where that horribly evil federal government comes in. It may not be perfect, but it is also the only barrier we have between some degree of oversight and accountability, and the ability of private industry to have free reign to do anything and everything it wants. I may not trust our government all that much, but neither do I trust the motives of private industry. In fact even less. I believe the right balance lies in a healthy tension between the two. Unfortunately all too often the relationship is far more cozy and incestuous than it should be.
Last edited by Smithhammer on Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by eponymous » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:22 pm

Smithhammer wrote: unless of course you're talking about the current, intellectually lazy, right-wing definition we hear on Fox news everyday.
Smitty:

Honest question. How many minutes or hours did you watch Fox news today? Yesterday? Last week? Last month? Last year? Honest answer please.

e
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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Smithhammer » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:42 pm

eponymous wrote:
Smithhammer wrote: unless of course you're talking about the current, intellectually lazy, right-wing definition we hear on Fox news everyday.
Smitty:

Honest question. How many minutes or hours did you watch Fox news today? Yesterday? Last week? Last month? Last year? Honest answer please.

e
Honest answer - little to none in the recent past, precisely because of the type of bullshit I mentioned above. Do you honestly think my characterization of Fox is off base? Frankly, I don't watch any tv news, nor do I even own a tv anymore.

Regardless, the legitimacy of Fox is a tangent in this discussion. I don't really hear anyone giving a strong defense of the "teabag" position, which, as far as I can tell, is best done by squatting over the victims head, sumo style.
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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by eponymous » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:13 pm

oh man hammer - Say it ain't so.

If you never watch how do you know what is being said and how can you pass judgments on them being "intellectually lazy". I would say to that hello Mr. Pot, this is Mr. Kettle calling. (and you know I respect you - at least through this fucked up portal on the interwebs - as a terrific writer and one smart fellow - smarter than I at a minimum.)

I actually do think you are off base on this one. Your assignment is to spend 2 weeks watching at least 1 hour of Fox News each day. Watch Brett Behr and/or Sheppard Smith or O'Reilly. You may feel differently. I'm not saying that Sean Hannity is not a bitter partisan so you probably need not take that one in. Glenn Beck may not be your cup of tea but by all means he is not a stupid man. A little nutz but not stupid. That is why the mainstream media is in the middle of an outright assult on the guy.

Let's also talk Meghan Kelley. She is gud. Preggo as all get out at the moment but still a mighty fine lookin' lady. WOnder if the rug matches the curtains?

I think if you did watch Fox you would see the folks who do have legitamate gripes being covered and they are normal folks like you and me. You won't find these points of view on ABC/CBS/NBC/MSNBC or even CNN. They are looking for the nutbags with either marginally or outright racist signs because it supports their particular agenda and makes the far right wing specifically and by extension the Republican Party look bad.

What T.E.A. stands for is taxed enough already. A vast majority of the people there are not gun totin' rednecks who are looking for anarchy. They are there for sure but they are not the majority. They are folks like you and me who are there to say "You want to tax me okay, but how about giving me something in return? Otherwise cut the crap." That is what a majority of these folks are out there trying to get across.

I don't know how much you make but I am in that magic zone where I make too much and not enough. I get flat out raped every week and I get little out of it. My town and state (granted I choose to live here) have shitty roads (billion dollar tunnels that leak) shitty parks and shitty schools. I spend a fortune each year in after tax dollars sending my kids to private schools b/c the public schools in my town flat out suck ass. I still pay taxes to support them even though my kids get no benefit from them. I try to make it better - I've donated professional services to my town to the tune in excess of $100K over the last 2 years and I sit on a major town board. I receive not pay, it is totally voluntary. I'm trying like hell but I seem to keep paying more and getting less.

Give it a try and report back in a few weeks......
"Baseball gives every American boy a chance to excel, not just to be as good as someone else but to be better than someone else. This is the nature of man and the name of the game." Ted Williams

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Re: The Teabaggeer Socialist Free Purity Pledge

Post by Smithhammer » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:21 am

E -

When I say I don't watch Fox news, I'm not saying that I've never watched Fox news. There are times when it's unavoidable, like sitting at an airport bar or whatever. At times like that, I'll sit there and nurse my beer and relinquish myself to being just another agog observer to the info-tainment train wreck. So yeah, I feel like I'm qualified to have an opinion about it. Telling me that the only way I can make statements about Fox news is if I'm a regular viewer is kind of like saying that the only way I call Sarah Palin a complete idiot is if I continue to listen to her every single time she opens her mouth. At a certain point, it's painfully obvious and further proof really isn't needed unless you're simply a glutton for punishment.

By the way, I would never call Glenn Beck or Bill O'Reilly stupid people. I think they are very good at what they do. But what they do is play a role. They are actors - I do not actually consider them real journalists in any sense of the word. But you're right - they aren't stupid.

And as I said before, we have every right to expect a quality product in return for our taxes, and sure there are plenty of examples of our taxes not being used efficiently. I think we agree on that. I just don't see the whiny tea-bag movement as being an effective or productive response, nor do I see the Sean Hannity and Glenn Becks, fanning the flames of outrage, as contributing any positive solutions either. It's cheap populism, and they're taking it to the bank.
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