Iran Nukes

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highstream
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by highstream » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:32 pm

Smithhammer wrote:Dude, please. You make a completely off-base assumption that my information must come exclusively from "liberal media." Clearly, in the way that you use the term, it is meant as a put down. Why? Especially when you really have no idea where I get my info from? And the "How do I think I live the life I live" statement, as though I'm really that clueless?

Like I said, if you want to have substantial discussion, I'm all for it, but if all you want to do is try to paint me as a clueless left-wing idiot because I'm not just simply jumping on the "let's bomb the shit out of Iran" bandwagon, and trying to make the case that we better think long and hard about our actions, then this is pointless. Let's start here, if you're willing - what points made you think?
Alright, I was done but you and Rusty have brought up some good points. Let me start off by saying that I re-read what I wrote and I guess I could have been took as hostile. I guess it's a thin line between passionate and hostile. Off basis assumption? Are you not a Liberal? No way is that a "put down". Some of my best friends are Liberal. Sorry, I assumed you got your info from the Liberal media 'if' you are a Liberal. I should not assume. The life you live is the same life I live. We have Freedom and Democracy. No I do not think you are clueless, I enjoy reading your political posts. As I do Epo, Ditchdoc, and Rusty.


I'm not trying to paint you as anything. I sure do not think just because someone disagrees with us we should bomb the crap out of them. If some one is suppressing their people I think something should be said or done. Iran broke so many UN Sanctions by test firing nukes that something has to be done. I think you and Rusty have made me think about this whole thing because of who I believe actually CONTROLS Iran. I am no way as Eloquent talking as you other guys, but, I am passionate in what I believe. And it might come out Hostile.
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highstream
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by highstream » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:46 pm

Rusty Hook wrote:
highstream wrote: Ahmadinejad should be controlled. Do you feel different? He is suppressing the people of Iran. Not only that but he has threatened us and other countries that believe in freedom. Do you agree?
As has already been pointed out, Ahmadinejad may be in a position of power, but that power is quite limited. He sure as hell isn't "calling the shots" in Iran. If anyone calls the shots, it would be the Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, who is commander in chief of the military and has sole authority to declare war or peace. The Supreme Leader is appointed by the Assembly of Experts, an elected body of 86 Islamic scholars whose main duty is to elect and remove the Supreme Leader and to supervise his activities. As they have the power to remove Khamenei from office, you could just as easily say that Hashemi Rafsanjani, as leader of the Assembly of Experts, calls the shots.

The President of Iran is responsible for the implementation of the constitution and for the exercise of executive powers, except for matters directly related to the Supreme Leader, and is the highest state authority after the Supreme Leader. The President appoints and supervises the Council of Ministers, coordinates government decisions, and selects government policies to be placed before the legislature. Candidates for President, like all other candidates for political office, must be approved by the Council of Guardians, and appointed 12 member body that is charged with confirming the compatibility of candidates and legislation with Islamic and constitutional law. Six of its members are appointed by the legislature. The other six are appointed by the Supreme Leader.

If you want to believe that Ahmadinejad is "calling the shots" in Iran, go ahead and believe anything you want, but if you really believe in freedom, that would include allowing the citizens of other countries to choose their own path. Insisting that they choose ours isn't freedom, it's tyranny. If Iran ever attacked the United States, I would be the first to say we should strike back, but anti-American demonstrations, flag and effigy burnings, and angry speeches in Tehran and elsewhere fall pretty short of the mark. Beyond that, if we intend to invade every nation that doesn't like us, we will need a much bigger army than the one we have. Just sayin.

Wikipedia and Google give lots of info, but, lets base our opinions on what we believe. In the last paragraph I can see we are not far from agreeing. If you didn't know most countries do not like us.
"I suppose you're swilling 400 proof White lightning and smoking hand rolled poison ivy leaves while you fish? tough guy. I was smoking Marlboro Reds back when you were still shitting in your carseat."--Lenny

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highstream
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by highstream » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:59 pm

Lets think about this and forget who actually runs things. They broke so many rules by test firing nukes that something should be done Plain and simple.
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Rusty Hook » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:47 pm

A nuclear test is one of the easiest things on earth to detect. That is how we know exactly who has detonated a nuclear device and who has not. If Iran has been "test firing nukes," we would know that. They have not.
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by befuddled » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:54 pm

Smithhammer wrote:
ditchdoc wrote:The question was posed as to what was being suggested. My suggestion is that our President make the promise to the world, that any nation which, without provocation, attacks another sovereign nation, using weapons of mass destruction, that the US will retaliate with whatever means we deem necessary to prevent said nation from continuing their aggression. With all the posturing of various dictators and, allegedly, elected leaders of third-world countries, someone has to make them realize that there WILL be consequences to their threatened actions.
With that I agree completely, and I think most world leaders already know that that is an implicit assumption if they are going to attack another country. Where I think it starts to get a lot trickier is when we deem it necessary to do something "pre-emptively."

I would tend to agree here also if it weren't for the fact that BushCo actually achieved a certain level of disarmament. That leads me more towards the unfortunate idea that the rest of the world bases their beliefs in sound bites more than reality the same way our country did when BushCo declared McCain a fraud and gave us an untenable republican candidate
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Smithhammer
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Smithhammer » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:09 pm

highstream wrote:Alright, I was done but you and Rusty have brought up some good points. Let me start off by saying that I re-read what I wrote and I guess I could have been took as hostile. I guess it's a thin line between passionate and hostile. Off basis assumption? Are you not a Liberal? No way is that a "put down". Some of my best friends are Liberal. Sorry, I assumed you got your info from the Liberal media 'if' you are a Liberal. I should not assume. The life you live is the same life I live. We have Freedom and Democracy. No I do not think you are clueless, I enjoy reading your political posts. As I do Epo, Ditchdoc, and Rusty.
No worries, and given the state I was in by the time I got home last night, it's entirely possible I took your post the wrong way. Glad we can continue to discuss this, because I really think it's an interesting issue. Btw, I really don't consider myself a "liberal." Truly. I don't really consider myself anything, to be honest. Whether my views may be viewed as "liberal" or "conservative" depends entirely on what issue we're talking about. I have some views on certain issues that would irritate the hell out of your typical, across-the-board, liberal.

And now back to to the topic...
Last edited by Smithhammer on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Dude » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:03 am

I'm not sure if I'm representative of the canadian view, as I tend to have what people here would fairly conservative views on war and criminal punishment, though I'm more of a liberal when it comes to other things like marriage law etc.

Anyways, I think most of you guys generally have some good ideas going here. Regardless of who actually is running Iran, the world in general needs to keep a close watch on this situation. It's a very difficult situation, sanctions or invasion of Iran right now could have some serious consequences, but the idea of an Iran with nuclear weapons scares the shit out of me, plain and simple.

I think that most of us would agree that while the idea of a nuclear incident domino-ing in all out nuclear war/ world war three as being unlikely since most world leaders are either too scared or not bat shit insane enough for this, Iran is one of the places that could end up causing this. If any of what we've heard about Iran wanting to kill all the Israelis or of Israel being willing to strike first with nukes if Iran successfully develops a bomb which can hit Iran, then we are in for a shitstorm of problems. I think it's imperative that we try to avoid the consequences of Iran having nuclear weapons to through around and possibly spread around, but it's gonna be hard. As much as people give the US shit for the wars right now etc, at least they have done something. Without the threat of the US, certain parts of the world would probably be a lot worse off.

Either way, I hope this gets solve without nuclear war.
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by ditchdoc » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:57 am

Any time you have religious fanatics running countries, you have a serious problem. They have a tendency to see everything in black or white, with zilch in between. And I'm not talking just about Islam. Here we are in the 21st century and people are still fighting over one form of religion or another. How many people have been killed, in the name of God, over the millenia? I think the world could do with a lot less religion.
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Smithhammer
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Smithhammer » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 pm

Amen.

Whoops - I mean, "right on."

:coffee
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Salmotrutta » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:50 am

Smiff- she still hasn't responded. Should I poke her? Too soon? Too Late?
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highstream
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by highstream » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:08 am

Salmotrutta wrote:Smiff- she still hasn't responded. Should I poke her? Too soon? Too Late?

hahaha, Now that's some funny shit. I spit coffee everywhere. :cool
"I suppose you're swilling 400 proof White lightning and smoking hand rolled poison ivy leaves while you fish? tough guy. I was smoking Marlboro Reds back when you were still shitting in your carseat."--Lenny

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Smithhammer
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Re: Iran Nukes

Post by Smithhammer » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:03 am

Salmotrutta wrote:Smiff- she still hasn't responded. Should I poke her? Too soon? Too Late?
One must always follow the urge to poke, Salmo. Indecision is weakness.
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