By upstanding
#280667
LTD your solution is:
The solution is to stop the PC bullshit. Who cares about the delays. The American people need to suck it up and realize that ANY delays are not worth the potential lost LIVES. We need profiling. We need to quit fucking around and get serious. I don't give a damn what other countries think of us! We need to start doing what it takes to protect Americans. PERIOD.

All flights to the US need to be screened by US citz. We can no longer expect other countries to take care of our expectations. The TSA is a JOKE. I have personally traveled with items mistakenly left in my carry on's that have gone undetected.( ie. ammo, and bangstick end, and flylines) How many lives will it take to before we start to truly protect this country?

IF TSA is a joke then why should all flights to US be screened by us citz? Who would you use and who pays for these pros...USA, ultimately taxpayers, the Carriers thus flying public? They do profile but some are better at it than others. If you don't care about delays fly El Al. What airport? When? What kind of munitions were carried on your person? You mean the nitro contained in the ammo did not light up the "machine"?? same for the bang stick the shell end I assume...when and where? Did you go through Baltimore or Reagan with ammo and hot end of a bangstick? or was it in East Jesus Wyoming where you could have walked on with anything 'cause they know you. BTW what's a sporting gentleman like you doing with a bang stick...everyone got to eat even the brown suits...just a tap on the nose with the pole does it for the guides I use. Just one time I saw Timer pissed 'cause the browns were taking his handlined muttons he wrapped a couple of drano cans in barracuda and fed it to them. In usa chicago, indy, lauderdale, miami, kw atlanta no problem with flylines they can tell it's not P'Cord. Rather than ranting, unless it's a political solution you are after, why didn't you suggest that all carriers to the US and in the US use the "Puff" at the gate...after clearing initial security...the "Puff" would have detected or alerted...The "Puff" should be used to detect non-mag material on the body and if dressed native so "Puff" might be compromised then pat down...he had a visa and he did not fly out of France or Germany or England...I believe he picked Am'dam for a reason.
User avatar
By LTD
#280717
upstanding wrote:LTD your solution is:
The solution is to stop the PC bullshit. Who cares about the delays. The American people need to suck it up and realize that ANY delays are not worth the potential lost LIVES. We need profiling. We need to quit fucking around and get serious. I don't give a damn what other countries think of us! We need to start doing what it takes to protect Americans. PERIOD.

All flights to the US need to be screened by US citz. We can no longer expect other countries to take care of our expectations. The TSA is a JOKE. I have personally traveled with items mistakenly left in my carry on's that have gone undetected.( ie. ammo, and bangstick end, and flylines) How many lives will it take to before we start to truly protect this country?

IF TSA is a joke then why should all flights to US be screened by us citz? We need a better program or MORE oversight of TSA. (aka.."Thousands Standing Around" With all the current spending whats a little more when it will save lives? This admin should have no issue spending more to protect the citizens its meant to represent. Who would you use and who pays for these pros...USA, ultimately taxpayers, the Carriers thus flying public? I wouldn't have an issue paying if I knew that the money was going to the proper place and not into the pockets of one of our government thieves. They do profile but some are better at it than others. Hire the best. If you don't care about delays fly El Al. What airport? Two different airports. One of which has a "much higher" security level than others due to the fact that one of our ex VP'S flies in and out of it. And yes that was in "east Jesus WY" where they certainly don't give a damn WHO you are. The other was an international airport most of us are very familiar with.When? Within the last 12 months. What kind of munitions were carried on your person? Carry on bag. You mean the nitro contained in the ammo did not light up the "machine"?? It was a single piece of 44 mag ammo left in my carry on. same for the bang stick the shell end I assume...when and where? Shell end...(I don't know much about bangstickicks, never used one) in a different bag. One that I was borrowing and was unaware that the shell was in there. I assume that the shell end does contain powder residue. Not detected. Did you go through Baltimore or Reagan with ammo and hot end of a bangstick? or was it in East Jesus Wyoming where you could have walked on with anything 'cause they know you. (see above) BTW what's a sporting gentleman like you doing with a bang stick...everyone got to eat even the brown suits...just a tap on the nose with the pole does it for the guides I use. (see above) Just one time I saw Timer pissed 'cause the browns were taking his handlined muttons he wrapped a couple of drano cans in barracuda and fed it to them. In usa chicago, indy, lauderdale, miami, kw atlanta no problem with flylines they can tell it's not P'Cord. Rather than ranting, unless it's a political solution you are after, why didn't you suggest that all carriers to the US and in the US use the "Puff" at the gate...after clearing initial security...the "Puff" would have detected or alerted...The "Puff" should be used to detect non-mag material on the body and if dressed native so "Puff" might be compromised then pat down...he had a visa and he did not fly out of France or Germany or England...I believe he picked Am'dam for a reason.
BWI has the "Puffer". I was one of those that didn't get put through it. Granted it goes to show that profiling won't be 100% but would help and there is no reason why we shouldn't be doing more of it.

I often use the same bags during my hunting season that are used during my fishing season. I used to wonder if even with an empty bag...would the powder residue due to transfer show? It has not yet.
FYI...I will no longer take that chance traveling with any bag that has been exposed to GP. I am now buying all NEW bags.

Bottom line......we are not doing enough. Much of what we are NOT doing is due to the fact that this country has become far to concerned with being PC. Obama's admin had better start paying closer attention, this most recent incident should serve "once again" as a wake up.

Are delays worth the lives that might be saved? YES IMO. If you are on a list.....you don't come here. If you fit whatever profile the pros establish....you WILL be searched. Tough shit...I don't care if your feelings are hurt.

Can you honestly say that we have been doing enough? Can you honestly say that we don't need to do more? Can you honestly say that the PC bullshit has not prevented us from doing a better job?
If any of you answered YES to any of the above ......you need to get your head out of the sand.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#280733
Napolitano's stupid remarks aside, this wasnt our fault, it was primarily nigeria's fault. The father notified nigerian authorities about his son, not the US, but the father was connected and the son used those connections to get out of the country shortly after. Sounds like a shit or get of the pot situation for the kid, the heat was on and he had to actually do something or he would have wound up in a nigerian prison. From what I heard he got a well heeled escort thru the nigerian airport from someone pretty connected.

Beyond that, this was a failure of security in Amsterdam, not the US. If he had made it past US Customs and blew up the airport, then it would be a TSA failure. We dont have any jurisdiction in Amsterdam, nor will we have any jurisdiction in the future. I am actually glad this happened on BO's watch. If it had happened on GW's Im sure he would be busy making an ass of himself demanding every country cede jurisdictional authority to our TSA goons. That would have gone over real well for our relations with europe im sure. Even GB would have spit in our face on that one.

For chrissakes, this was a terrorist act, no matter how much money we spend, if there are people determined enough to do it, it will happen eventually. Its kinda of ironic given that OBL stated one specific al qaida objective was to bankrupt our country via zeitgeist and whaddyaknow, he has done pretty darn well on that count. Im guessing between the wars and paranoia, we have surely dumped well over a trillion into stopping some international criminals, how bout we pile on a bunch more chasing ghosts? Where is 007 when you need him?

Lastly, so much for visiting Canada next year. I had some jailhouse tat ridden borderguard in eureka put me on a list years ago cause he was so bored he ripped apart my car for over an hour and to make the effort worthwhile decided he found marajuana residue on my cigarette papers, which were in a pouch of rolling tobacco in plain view. I told him several people had rolled cigs in a couple campgrounds we had stayed at, so it could have come from anyone, but he was an asshole and put me on a list that results in detention and major harrassment every time I return to the states. I can only imagine what will happen now. And assholes like this guy are who you want to give even more money and power too? It is always humorous to me the amount of freedom and even constitutional rights conservatives are willing to give up in the name of zeitgeist, esp when the freedom and rights are some other poor schmuck's. But, touch their wallet to help the poor, and feel the wrath.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#280738
Upsetter wrote:Napolitano's stupid remarks aside, this wasnt our fault, it was primarily nigeria's fault. The father notified nigerian authorities about his son, not the US, but the father was connected and the son used those connections to get out of the country shortly after. Sounds like a shit or get of the pot situation for the kid, the heat was on and he had to actually do something or he would have wound up in a nigerian prison. From what I heard he got a well heeled escort thru the nigerian airport from someone pretty connected.

Beyond that, this was a failure of security in Amsterdam, not the US. If he had made it past US Customs and blew up the airport, then it would be a TSA failure. We dont have any jurisdiction in Amsterdam, nor will we have any jurisdiction in the future. I am actually glad this happened on BO's watch. If it had happened on GW's Im sure he would be busy making an ass of himself demanding every country cede jurisdictional authority to our TSA goons. That would have gone over real well for our relations with europe im sure. Even GB would have spit in our face on that one.
I'm afraid the time has passed when we could afford to let other countries bear the responsibility for making sure we don't have suicide bombers flying into US airspace via commercial carriers. While the Amsterdam and Lagos airports need to maintain reputations as sufficiently safe operations in order to maintain their business, there's simply no way that preventing such an incident is as important to them as it is to us.

I don't know how we can go about taking greater control of security of inbound int'l flights without pissing off other countries, but the former simply HAS to be achieved, even if the latter happens as a side effect. That said, a solution to the problem is much more likely to be implemented with maximum success through diplomatic collaboration than by unilateral decree, and I agree that the current admin is better suited to making that happen.
By upstanding
#280740
LTD:
"Are delays worth the lives that might be saved? YES IMO." But to impose your ideal security would require that which you abhor...big government imposing its absolute rule on all carriers within and coming into USA. Why are you so willing to have big government rule all air carriers but so unwilling to have big government involved in public option health care. I like that reasoning but I've seen that before if one life could be saved by not allowing the public any semi autos with more than 6 that's worth it...for example what if the Shrink only could obtain a revolver(s) with six...could some lives have been spared at Hood? He used a 5.7 FN with 20 mag and his old S&W was not fired and based on the numbers killed and wounded he apparently used two or three mags..I'd ban that pistol for the public as well as any semi holding more than six for the public.

Let's have your big government security rules and regulations for all carriers in usa and all carriers coming into usa. I'll agree to the Puff for all and use it at the gate before entering... what else do you propose?
User avatar
By Upsetter
#280751
BigCliff wrote:I don't know how we can go about taking greater control of security of inbound int'l flights without pissing off other countries, but the former simply HAS to be achieved, even if the latter happens as a side effect. That said, a solution to the problem is much more likely to be implemented with maximum success through diplomatic collaboration than by unilateral decree, and I agree that the current admin is better suited to making that happen.
You cant do it by unilateral decree, plain and simple. Even GW wasnt king of the world, it doesnt work that way. Its foreign soil, we have no jurisdiction. The only way for us to be able to do anything is by leave of whatever nation we are talking about. Sure, we can make all sorts of threats and noise, but that would be the GW approach to winning friends abroad, wouldnt it? Further, the flight out of nigeria was to amsterdam, are you proposing we take over airport security for the entire world to ensure would be terrorists do not travel anywhere? A better idea would be to have the airlines handle it, let them hire blackwater to perform security checks at their gates, get blackwater off the govt tit. This way, the traveller can pay for xtra security if they are so worried about it.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#280756
Upsetter wrote:
BigCliff wrote:I don't know how we can go about taking greater control of security of inbound int'l flights without pissing off other countries, but the former simply HAS to be achieved, even if the latter happens as a side effect. That said, a solution to the problem is much more likely to be implemented with maximum success through diplomatic collaboration than by unilateral decree, and I agree that the current admin is better suited to making that happen.
You cant do it by unilateral decree, plain and simple. Even GW wasnt king of the world, it doesnt work that way. Its foreign soil, we have no jurisdiction. The only way for us to be able to do anything is by leave of whatever nation we are talking about. Sure, we can make all sorts of threats and noise, but that would be the GW approach to winning friends abroad, wouldnt it? Further, the flight out of nigeria was to amsterdam, are you proposing we take over airport security for the entire world to ensure would be terrorists do not travel anywhere? A better idea would be to have the airlines handle it, let them hire blackwater to perform security checks at their gates, get blackwater off the govt tit. This way, the traveller can pay for xtra security if they are so worried about it.
No shit. x3

Ya think? x2

No, pay attention.

In concept, I like the idea of getting the airlines to handle it, but given their demonstrated (in)ability to meet schedules, transport bags, and make a profit, I doubt they're up to the task.
User avatar
By LTD
#280762
upstanding wrote:LTD:
"Are delays worth the lives that might be saved? YES IMO." But to impose your ideal security would require that which you abhor...big government imposing its absolute rule on all carriers within and coming into USA. Why are you so willing to have big government rule all air carriers but so unwilling to have big government involved in public option health care. I like that reasoning but I've seen that before if one life could be saved by not allowing the public any semi autos with more than 6 that's worth it...for example what if the Shrink only could obtain a revolver(s) with six...could some lives have been spared at Hood? He used a 5.7 FN with 20 mag and his old S&W was not fired and based on the numbers killed and wounded he apparently used two or three mags..I'd ban that pistol for the public as well as any semi holding more than six for the public. One BIG problem here.......There were NO personel with guns on the base where the incident took place. It took a civilian to shot the SOB. Ask yourself this....Why were there no guns? It's a military base for crissakes!
Like I have said before...people kill people not guns. I only suggested better oversight regarding TSA, and voiced my displeasure. We already have Big gov with the TSA...whats wrong with holding them accountable? Whats wrong with suggesting they do a better job. I fucking pay for it, so do you! I really don't care who does it (gov/private) as long as it is done with a purpose. As long as it is done effectively.

Imposing tougher security laws is a little different than taking away ones right to have AR's. Telling someone they must purchase GOV health ins is a little different then telling a potential terrorist to get the fuck off the plane and take a bus. If you don't like our security implements don't fly to the US. I am not real sure we will have that choice with Obamacare. (is the public option even part of the new bill?) Many of the freedoms Americans have been enjoying will eventually go by the wayside..like it or not. Some of them out of safety concerns and some at the hands of our socialist POTUS.


Improving this nations security should NOT be a partisan issue. Shame on those who do.

Upstanding....you and others on this forum are greatly mistaken if you think I am opposed to our government or any of its programs. "Pay attention" as Cliff would say. It doesn't apply to me. I find it entertaining that the liberal perspective assumes that to be true in anyone other than their own ilk.

Let's have your big government security rules and regulations for all carriers in usa and all carriers coming into usa. I'll agree to the Puff for all and use it at the gate before entering... what else do you propose?
Cut the PC bullshit. That would be a great start. This is a two way street....we have established that we agree on the puffer. Your ideas?
User avatar
By LTD
#280763
Upsetter wrote:Napolitano's stupid remarks aside, this wasnt our fault, it was primarily nigeria's fault. The father notified nigerian authorities about his son, not the US, but the father was connected and the son used those connections to get out of the country shortly after. Sounds like a shit or get of the pot situation for the kid, the heat was on and he had to actually do something or he would have wound up in a nigerian prison. From what I heard he got a well heeled escort thru the nigerian airport from someone pretty connected. How much longer do we continue to put American lives in the hands of countries like this?

Beyond that, this was a failure of security in Amsterdam, not the US. If he had made it past US Customs and blew up the airport, then it would be a TSA failure. We dont have any jurisdiction in Amsterdam, nor will we have any jurisdiction in the future. I am actually glad this happened on BO's watch. If it had happened on GW's Im sure he would be busy making an ass of himself demanding every country cede jurisdictional authority to our TSA goons. That would have gone over real well for our relations with europe im sure. Even GB would have spit in our face on that one. Well Upsetter...At least you are consistant. You didn't disappoint other than the fact the but but but BUSH wasn't the first sentence in your post. LOL....

For chrissakes, this was a terrorist act, no matter how much money we spend, if there are people determined enough to do it, it will happen eventually. Its kinda of ironic given that OBL stated one specific al qaida objective was to bankrupt our country via zeitgeist and whaddyaknow, he has done pretty darn well on that count. Im guessing between the wars and paranoia, we have surely dumped well over a trillion into stopping some international criminals, how bout we pile on a bunch more chasing ghosts? Where is 007 when you need him?

Lastly, so much for visiting Canada next year. I had some jailhouse tat ridden borderguard in eureka put me on a list years ago cause he was so bored he ripped apart my car for over an hour and to make the effort worthwhile decided he found marajuana residue on my cigarette papers, which were in a pouch of rolling tobacco in plain view. I told him several people had rolled cigs in a couple campgrounds we had stayed at, so it could have come from anyone, but he was an asshole and put me on a list that results in detention and major harrassment every time I return to the states. I can only imagine what will happen now. And assholes like this guy are who you want to give even more money and power too? It is always humorous to me the amount of freedom and even constitutional rights conservatives are willing to give up in the name of zeitgeist, esp when the freedom and rights are some other poor schmuck's. But, touch their wallet to help the poor, and feel the wrath. Not my favorite place either.....
Any solutions Up? Any ideas?
By upstanding
#280843
LTD:
People do kill and all else being the same if he did not have the FN 5.7 but just a revolver with six and having to reload more likely than not a life or lives would have been saved and less than 31 would have been wounded.

It's an option not required that I was referencing...just as medicare is an option...don't have to have it at 65 but just price private insurance at 65 and beyond...

If I'm on business international, I would not accept delay I would pick certain carriers and airports and assume the risk. The Puff at the gate that is my international solution. What's yours?
User avatar
By TheOldGuard
#280848
upstanding wrote: People do kill and all else being the same if he did not have the FN 5.7 but just a revolver with six and having to reload more likely than not a life or lives would have been saved and less than 31 would have been wounded.
So it was the guns fault that so many people died. What if he had 6 or 8 pistols? 6x8 = 48 potential kills
User avatar
By LTD
#280850
upstanding wrote:LTD:
People do kill and all else being the same if he did not have the FN 5.7 but just a revolver with six and having to reload more likely than not a life or lives would have been saved and less than 31 would have been wounded.

It's an option not required that I was referencing...just as medicare is an option...don't have to have it at 65 but just price private insurance at 65 and beyond...

If I'm on business international, I would not accept delay I would pick certain carriers and airports and assume the risk. The Puff at the gate that is my international solution. What's yours?
In addition to the puff a full body scan and a solid canine presence.
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