Ft Hood

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Overcast
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by Overcast » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:13 pm

Upsetter wrote:Napolitano's stupid remarks aside, this wasnt our fault, it was primarily nigeria's fault. The father notified nigerian authorities about his son, not the US,"We learned of Abdulmutallab in November, when his father came to the U.S. embassy in Nigeria and sought help in finding him," Paul Gimigliano, a CIA spokesman said Tuesday. but the father was connected and the son used those connections to get out of the country shortly after. Sounds like a shit or get of the pot situation for the kid, the heat was on and he had to actually do something or he would have wound up in a nigerian prison. From what I heard he got a well heeled escort thru the nigerian airport from someone pretty connected.

Beyond that, this was a failure of security in Amsterdam, not the US. President Obama said Tuesday that a "systemic failure" on multiple levels allowed a passenger armed with explosives to board a Detroit-bound flight last week, as evidence mounts that there were warning signs and the government missed them. If he had made it past US Customs and blew up the airport, then it would be a TSA failure.
[Fixed]

Unfortunately for all of us Upsetter, terrorism is reality regardless of who the potus is. The idea of kissing and bowing and making apologies for any previous administration obviously isn't working either. Is it just me, or has there been more reports or actual events of failed terrorist attempts since the President has taken office.

Just a thought, I know there is some awesome bone fishing to be done in Cuba. How about if we divert flights to Cuba from countries that pose a high terrorist threat. Govco could set up a TSA check station and those in violation could get comfortable with the current detainees. Just fuck'n withca
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by Upsetter » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:39 pm

Yeah, I caught that updated article later in the afternoon, didnt bother to correct my post. I still dont think this is that big of a deal. Terrorists getting a nuke in pakistan, a big deal, but they aint gonna smuggle a nuke in some kids underpants. This shit is no different IMO than any other hazard of flying. To that effect, in 2008, we spent 6.4 billion dollars on TSA and security. We spent 17 million on our Air Traffic Control system. Every airplane crash statistic website I can find says those numbers should be reversed cause about 3% of fatalities result from sabotage/hijacking and well over 50% result from pilot error, usually within comms with ATC. Personally, I dont fly unless I absolute must, I avoid it like the plague, but its not cause of some nigerian kid lookin to set his pants on fire, he is not the danger I worry about. To me this is about rational prioritization and I think this nation is totally out to lunch about this 'terrorist' threat, except to the extent they can get their hands on WMD's. Focusing on Pakistan and Afghanistan makes sense, the rest of it is paranoia. These terrorists are criminals of a politically disruptive nature and by treating them as anything more than that, we play into their hands, we turn them into more than what they really are. They want a huge, expensive response, they want to be feared and villified by the West to the tune of billions of dollars in security and trillions in misguided military adventurism. We couldnt have done Al Qaida any better than we did by attacking Iraq, confirming for everyone in the Arab world that we are just what he has said we are, an imperial force seeking to force western ways on the islamic world. One of OBL's stated objectives years ago was to bankrupt our nation via zeitgeist, and I think it is working. We have already dumped well over a trillion dollars into the effort since 9/11 and we havent even caught the bastard.

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Re: Ft Hood

Post by BigCliff » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:18 pm

Upsetter wrote:This shit is no different IMO than any other hazard of flying. To that effect, in 2008, we spent 6.4 billion dollars on TSA and security. We spent 17 million on our Air Traffic Control system. Every airplane crash statistic website I can find says those numbers should be reversed cause about 3% of fatalities result from sabotage/hijacking and well over 50% result from pilot error, usually within comms with ATC. Personally, I dont fly unless I absolute must, I avoid it like the plague, but its not cause of some nigerian kid lookin to set his pants on fire, he is not the danger I worry about.
Buddy, are you tellin us that despite the number of deaths per passenger mile for car travel being 37 TIMES the rate for air travel, you view it as safer than flying? And then go on to talk about "rational prioritization"?

I really do appreciate your contributions here as a contrast from the meatheads, but clarifying the above would help us know whether or not you're a raving loon.
Upsetter wrote:These terrorists are criminals of a politically disruptive nature and by treating them as anything more than that, we play into their hands, we turn them into more than what they really are. They want a huge, expensive response, they want to be feared and villified by the West to the tune of billions of dollars in security and trillions in misguided military adventurism.
I agree with the idea that our overdone response has likely helped them more than us, and that they are indeed rabble-rousing criminals moreso than tactical masterminds representing an existential threat to our nation. But we still have to keep in mind that these guys attempt crimes that have a pretty major impact on our society and collective psyche, and should formulate our safeguards and responses accordingly.
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by Upsetter » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:56 pm

When I drive, I am in a hell of a lot more control than I am when flying, where I am at the mercy of some schmuck I dont know on a plane I know nothing about the maintenance record for. I take every precaution possible, including a very well maintained car and a new set of studded/syped snow tires on my awd car every winter. So yeah, I think driving myself is safer. That said, I am never so on edge during a drive as when I am passing a potentially methed out truck driver on his 26th straight hour, again cause I feel out of control when I am beside one of those deathtraps. Like I said, Im cautious but Im confident in my abilities. I wouldnt have ten years of rock and ice climbing under my belt if I wasnt. I dont trust the airlines one bit and I dont trust those truckfucks either, but I deal with both when and where I have too.

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Re: Ft Hood

Post by SOBF » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:08 pm

I really do appreciate your contributions here as a contrast from the meatheads, but clarifying the above would help us know whether or not you're a raving loon.
I appreciate his contributions as well....Dooh...I must be a meathead or a raving loon....can you clarify what I am ?
I do appreciate the fact you are the party of diversity....do you appreciate my diversity of opinion ??

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Re: Ft Hood

Post by BigCliff » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:11 pm

SOBF wrote:.Dooh...I must be a meathead or a raving loon
As we said in my younger days, the smeller's the feller.

(kidding, I was just curious which one of y'all would feign offense first.)
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by BigCliff » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:19 pm

Upsetter wrote:When I drive, I am in a hell of a lot more control than I am when flying, where I am at the mercy of some schmuck I dont know on a plane I know nothing about the maintenance record for. I take every precaution possible, including a very well maintained car and a new set of studded/syped snow tires on my awd car every winter. So yeah, I think driving myself is safer. That said, I am never so on edge during a drive as when I am passing a potentially methed out truck driver on his 26th straight hour, again cause I feel out of control when I am beside one of those deathtraps. Like I said, Im cautious but Im confident in my abilities. I wouldnt have ten years of rock and ice climbing under my belt if I wasnt. I dont trust the airlines one bit and I dont trust those truckfucks either, but I deal with both when and where I have too.
Keep tellin yerself that buddy, especially when you're on a frozen road repeatedly only 5' shy of 100 total mph head on collisions with other vehicles, at least half of which are driven by folks MORE THAN 37 TIMES more likely than a commercial airline pilot to kill somebody with their vehicle.

Just sayin'
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by Upsetter » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:39 pm

That's on a two laner, I drive the interstate as much as possible for that very reason. But I agree, watching out for other peoples' mistakes and animals are my two constant concerns while on the road, ones Im very vigilant about. Im sure there are some people out there who have survived a half million miles by plane; Ive survived it by car. Although, I have to admit some close calls. So yeah, I guess I will keep telling myself that. And this website supports my pov; its at best a wash, but like I said, Im in control. http://www.crashstuff.com/driving-or-fl ... tatistics/
Conclusion

Choosing “mile to mile” as the more appropriate comparison for differing modes of transportation (and overlooking that small planes often takeoff and land at the same airport, without ever really “going anywhere”), let’s review the fatality rates:

driving: 1.32 fatal accidents and 1.47 fatalities per 100 million miles

airlines: .05 fatal accidents and 1.57 fatalities per 100 million miles

GA: 7.46 fatal accidents and 13.1 fatalities per 100 million miles

So mile per mile, GA flying has about 5 times as many fatal accidents, and 9 times as many fatalities, as compared to travel by motor vehicle. The airlines have about the same fatality rate as driving, but a much lower fatal accident rate (by virtue of a large number of fatalities per accident).
Note, though, that about 13% of these driving fatalities were pedestrians, and so weren’t actually engaged in driving. Also note that motorcycles have a much higher fatality rate than cars/trucks, namely 38.8 fatalities per 100M miles, over 25 times higher than the average, so these numbers are a bit inflated when it comes to determining the risk of an occupant of a car or truck.

And SOBF, I definitely appreciate your pov. Even mb's when he isnt calling me a commie and gettin all ticked off.

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Re: Ft Hood

Post by LTD » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:09 pm

I realize that this map has left out a few other places that could go as well, but this might work too.
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by BigCliff » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:34 am

LTD wrote:I realize that this map has left out a few other places that could go as well, but this might work too.
Meathead Exhibit A
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by Plow » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:45 am

LTD wrote:I realize that this map has left out a few other places that could go as well, but this might work too.
Looks like it could hold fish. I need to tie ups some flies for fishing over a glass bottom...
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Re: Ft Hood

Post by LTD » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:24 pm

BigCliff wrote:
LTD wrote:I realize that this map has left out a few other places that could go as well, but this might work too.
Meathead Exhibit A
lighten up Francis.......geeeeez.
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

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