American Justice

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BigCliff
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American Justice

Post by BigCliff » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:31 pm

Holder: We Will Seek The Death Penalty For 9/11 Suspects
Rachel Slajda | November 13, 2009, 11:28AM

In a press conference this morning, Attorney General Eric Holder said he will seek the death penalty against five suspects in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, including self-proclaimed mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, when they are tried in civilian court in New York City.

Holder said another five terrorist suspects, including those allegedly involved in the bombing of the USS Cole, will be referred to the Department of Defense. All 10 are currently being held in Guantanamo Bay.

He said he is confident the trials will result in conviction.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo...ts.php?ref=fpb

Guys, this is what American justice looks like. Not indefinite incarceration and torture. This took too damn long and Bush ought to be embarrassed by that.
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Smithhammer
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Re: American Justice

Post by Smithhammer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:02 pm

Wow. Putting these guys on trial at this point in the game. This is going to be pretty interesting to follow....
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Back Eddy
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Re: American Justice

Post by Back Eddy » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:14 pm

what if we could have a firing squad at Mt Rushmore. Any citizen could show up and we could have millions of bullets flying at them all at once.

Would that make epic TV or what?

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Smithhammer
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Re: American Justice

Post by Smithhammer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:19 pm

Back Eddy wrote:what if we could have a firing squad at Mt Rushmore. Any citizen could show up and we could have millions of bullets flying at them all at once.

Would that make epic TV or what?
Too quick. I'm thinking paint balls filled with a slow-burning acid.
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ditchdoc
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Re: American Justice

Post by ditchdoc » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:18 pm

I always thought they should have taken Tim McVeigh, since he liked to play with explosives, out in the desert somewhere and tied him to a stake. Then duct taped a stick of dynamite to his head and lit a very long and visible fuse. Then walked away and not looked back. Give him plenty of time to see it coming.

I was once against the death penalty. I finally came to the realization that there are some fuckers who just don't belong on the face of the earth. No, it's not going to bring anyone back, but it makes damn sure they won't terrorize anyone else. It's not punishment. It's retribution.
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SOBF
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Re: American Justice

Post by SOBF » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:50 pm

I was once against the death penalty. I finally came to the realization that there are some fuckers who just don't belong on the face of the earth
I was not against it ,but I would add child molesters into your realm of fuckers that can't be rehabilitated or belong on earth.I'd be happy to pull the trigger or lever or inject the needle.

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BigCliff
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Re: American Justice

Post by BigCliff » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:29 pm

SOBF wrote:
I was once against the death penalty. I finally came to the realization that there are some fuckers who just don't belong on the face of the earth
I was not against it ,but I would add child molesters into your realm of fuckers that can't be rehabilitated or belong on earth.I'd be happy to pull the trigger or lever or inject the needle.
For that crowd, I say we just throw them into a fairly uncontrolled jail with lots of large angry convicts that will do with them as they like. Justice gets served and the taxpayers save money by not having to prosecute for a death conviction. Once this arrangement becomes public knowledge, I think it will be a much better deterrent than what is currently in place.
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Willi
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Re: American Justice

Post by Willi » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:41 pm

When you look at how many people got freed from death row when they started using DNA evidence, you have to question if our justice system is good enough to justify the death penalty. Putting an innocent man to death is more than a big oops!!

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Plow
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Re: American Justice

Post by Plow » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:25 pm

BigCliff wrote:
Holder: We Will Seek The Death Penalty For 9/11 Suspects
Couple of simple question and comment:

Why is this better than military justice?

How will we keep our military secrets, secret in an open court?

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Upsetter
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Re: American Justice

Post by Upsetter » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:57 pm

Plow wrote:Couple of simple question and comment:

Why is this better than military justice?

How will we keep our military secrets, secret in an open court?
1) Because the militarty tribunals were found to be unconstitutional by the SCt.

2) Confidential, or secret, info in court filings can either be redacted or the entire filing can be submitted under seal, which means the whole filing is for the Court's eyes only. If you have a problem with a federal judge knowing about the executive's dirty laundry when hundreds, if not thousands, of mid-level spooks do, I dont know what to tell ya.

Regarding your comment about oj, if you want them all put to death without a meaningful trial, just come out and say it. Just because one guy gamed the system, in CA, in a freaking circus of a court, that was being televised almost real time on Court TV, doesnt mean that a federal judge, most of whom are serious, somber dudes (Ive met a bunch) will allow any such shenanigans to take place.

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Smithhammer
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Re: American Justice

Post by Smithhammer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:59 pm

Plow wrote:
Why is this better than military justice?
Not better, just different. In my opinion, what open courts accomplish is a more transparent process (or at least the appearance of it), and if nothing else, I think that's important symbolically. It's still pretty simple, assuming they're guilty and the evidence is solid. But where it potentially gets really tricky is if the evidence against some of these individuals is weak, and/or if the conditions/treatment of their confinement are admissible, and how that might reflect on any confessions they made during their confinement.
Plow wrote: How will we keep our military secrets, secret in an open court?
National secrets are dealt with in federal cases pretty frequently. Clearly, there will be details about these cases that will only be available to the select few who are trying and defending the case, and not the public.

But don't get me wrong, I think there is the potential for this to be really messy if not handled well.
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Plow
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Re: American Justice

Post by Plow » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Upsetter wrote:
1) Because the militarty tribunals were found to be unconstitutional by the SCt.
Well there is that little technicality but Congress could work with the military and come up with something.
2) Confidential, or secret, info in court filings can either be redacted or the entire filing can be submitted under seal, which means the whole filing is for the Court's eyes only. If you have a problem with a federal judge knowing about the executive's dirty laundry when hundreds, if not thousands, of mid-level spooks do, I dont know what to tell ya.
I have more faith in the spooks and our military keeping secrets that the courts. I see this trial turning into a real cluster fuck and it becoming more about Bush than the terrorist.
Regarding your comment about oj, if you want them all put to death without a meaningful trial, just come out and say it. Just because one guy gamed the system, in CA, in a freaking circus of a court, that was being televised almost real time on Court TV, doesnt mean that a federal judge, most of whom are serious, somber dudes (Ive met a bunch) will allow any such shenanigans to take place.
OJ was there to remind us anything can happen. Many of them already pleaded guilty and asked to be executed. I hope we make this a readily available avenue for them.
Smithhammer wrote:But don't get me wrong, I think there is the potential for this to be really messy if not handled well.
Agree. I see them finding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed innocent just so the left can bitch about how Bush tortured an innocent man.
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