Calling all Lefties

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SOBF
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Calling all Lefties

Post by SOBF » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:52 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/us/06 ... ref=health
What should we do ? I say send them back to the hell holes they came from. Why the fuck should we pay for their care?
They are here illegally and are a HUGE burden on our system.

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Upsetter
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:44 pm

Seems simple. They dont seem very astute, the illegals I mean, we know where they will be come tomorrow morning, same place they were today. Call ICE and they will send them home. I am amazed, given this article, that this hasnt already happened.

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SOBF
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by SOBF » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:18 pm

Call ICE and they will send them home.
This is the problem. Nobody has the nuts to send em home. Looks easy enough to me. We can track a cow from birth to burger,but we can't get a handle on illegals...we need to rid our country of them.

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troutsnot
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by troutsnot » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:33 pm

SOBF wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/us/06 ... ref=health
What should we do ? I say send them back to the hell holes they came from. Why the fuck should we pay for their care?
They are here illegally and are a HUGE burden on our system.
This isn't a political issue. What difference does it make if I am left or right? We should pay for their care because we are Human Beings, that simple. If they go back to where they come from they will not receive the care and die. So I guess the question is, if they are from another place in the world, and not here paying taxes their pain and suffering it is not our problem? I understand the frustration, but my opinion is I think we are better than that as a people. I do support coming here legally, but if there simply isn't time? If the shoe was on the other foot, and we did not have healthcare here, and Canada, or Mexico did, you bet I would beg, borrow, tunnel, swim or steal to get health care for my self or my family.

And I would hate to stand in front of my God, who preached that I am my brothers keeper period, and try to explain my supporting turning these people away when I have 5 fly rods in my closet. Just me.

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Upsetter
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:35 pm

nonsense, they get sent home in droves, over a quarter million every year. you might be right about this instance though.

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troutsnot
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by troutsnot » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:41 pm

Call me a bleeding heart pussy,I accept it. I just think this just makes us a little less human thats all. Ya can't treat dying, sick people as footnotes on a balance sheet. And I know we do it everyday, But what the fuck do I know?

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SOBF
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by SOBF » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:55 pm

Call me a bleeding heart pussy,I accept it. I just think this just makes us a little less human thats all. Ya can't treat dying, sick people as footnotes on a balance sheet. And I know we do it everyday, But what the fuck do I know?
Okay your a bleeding heart liberal. What the fuck do you know? Not much about the Constitution. If you want to pay for illegal's health care send them a check.You have that right. They have ZERO right to my families money. If your feeling so benevolent send me a fucking check. My wife has been out of work for 6 months. I have to pay for our insurance so that my family can have health care. Send them the fuck back !!!!!

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Mattb
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by Mattb » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:16 pm

It's a tough call- a lot of these people have built lives here, and it's likely they'll be starting from scratch wherever we send 'em. That said - in most cases they'll be going back to countries with socialized medecine (e.g. Mexico) where chances are they'll be able to get care. Sending them back to a failed state where they'll die for lack of medical care is one thing, but sending someone back to Mexico, or most Latin American states for that matter, is a different story.

Hell, I'd bet these hospitals would be happy to kick in a bit of scratch to get those guys on their feet after they'd been relocated.

I'm all for providing emergency services to all comers - including illegals, but this hardly qualifies as an emergency service.

Shit - I'm gonna ruin my reputation posting stuff like this.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by m.b. » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:16 pm

troutsnot wrote: This isn't a political issue. What difference does it make if I am left or right? We should pay for their care because we are Human Beings, that simple. If they go back to where they come from they will not receive the care and die. So I guess the question is, if they are from another place in the world, and not here paying taxes their pain and suffering it is not our problem? I understand the frustration, but my opinion is I think we are better than that as a people. I do support coming here legally, but if there simply isn't time? If the shoe was on the other foot, and we did not have healthcare here, and Canada, or Mexico did, you bet I would beg, borrow, tunnel, swim or steal to get health care for my self or my family.

And I would hate to stand in front of my God, who preached that I am my brothers keeper period, and try to explain my supporting turning these people away when I have 5 fly rods in my closet. Just me.
that's noble and all and i hear ya, but unfortunately it's not very realistic. if we paid for healthcare for every person on the planet (who couldn't afford it) we wouldn't have money to pay for ourselves. this is one of the reasons (one of many...) why our country is now bankrupt.

and don't worry, God will understand that you aren't perfect and couldn't do it all.
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:23 am

m.b. wrote:
troutsnot wrote: This isn't a political issue. What difference does it make if I am left or right? We should pay for their care because we are Human Beings, that simple. If they go back to where they come from they will not receive the care and die. So I guess the question is, if they are from another place in the world, and not here paying taxes their pain and suffering it is not our problem? I understand the frustration, but my opinion is I think we are better than that as a people. I do support coming here legally, but if there simply isn't time? If the shoe was on the other foot, and we did not have healthcare here, and Canada, or Mexico did, you bet I would beg, borrow, tunnel, swim or steal to get health care for my self or my family.

And I would hate to stand in front of my God, who preached that I am my brothers keeper period, and try to explain my supporting turning these people away when I have 5 fly rods in my closet. Just me.
that's noble and all and i hear ya, but unfortunately it's not very realistic. if we paid for healthcare for every person on the planet (who couldn't afford it) we wouldn't have money to pay for ourselves.
My thoughts exactly.

I'd also disagree with MattB's points on the reliability of Mexico's medical system, because its Mexico. Certain parts of Mexico operate as much or more like a modern western city as the one I live in, but that is far from consistent across the whole country. If these folks could all be plopped in Monterrey, they'd likely be in good shape, but I'd be willing to bet that Monterrey hasn't maintained its level of civilization by openly taking all of those needing the most (and most expensive) help.

I don't know the solution to this situation, but the fact is that no organization is legally required to take care of these folks, and no corporation is doing well by their stockholders by doing so. The individual mandate expected to be part of the HCR pkg that passes would tax citizens that use emergency care but don't carry insurance, but that does nothing for these undocumented folks. We need to either get busy deporting them or put together a path to citizenship to get them documented, paying full taxes, and subject to mandatory HC insurance.

I know many object to the pathway to citizenship option, but that's the shitty option here that seems much more realistic and feasible. We've got two different craps we can take, but we gotta take one to get off this pot.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by slavetotheflyrod » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:41 am

Couple things - Dialysis patients will die without dialysis, while that's not necessarily an emergency, it is a life or death situation. Second, someone started going on about Mexico's medical system - If I understood the article right these people are from El Salvador.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:00 am

slavetotheflyrod wrote:Second, someone started going on about Mexico's medical system - If I understood the article right these people are from El Salvador.
You're correct that the first folks in the article were actually Salvadoran, not Mexican. Towards the end of the article they referred to some other folks situations who were actually from Mexico. We both missed something in our responses.

I'm sure across the country we have illegals from many Latin American countries besides Mexico (esp El Salvador and Honduras), though I would bet the majority are from Mexico. Its also quite possible that referring to folks originally from Central America as Mexican is partly accurate, as many will live there for a few years while they're gradually moving north. (though for that to apply, I suppose that they would have had to become Mex citizens while they were there, which isn't likely)
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