Calling all Lefties

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ditchdoc
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by ditchdoc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:17 pm

It's irrelevant as to whether I'm left or right.

There are legal ways for people to immigrate to this country. People are naturalized every day. I'm not sure, but I bet we have some sort of quota system. I have no problem with legal immigration. I do have a problem with illegals. They are a burden to our society, and we have enough problems of our own. We need to get serious about the illegal problem. Untill we do, we will be continually inundated with them, and the problem only gets worse. Ours, is no longer the land of plenty.

On a similar note. My wife is an elementary school teacher. She was forced to take a college level course, and become certified in English as a Second Language. This for all the children, of legal immigrants, who do not speak English. She now has several kids in her class who do not speak English. How difficult and time-consuming do you think that is? How does it effect the other kid's education? Somehow this doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't they have to speak English before they enter our school system? If I moved to Mexico, I think I would learn the language, if for no other reason than to make my life simpler. I don't get this.
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SOBF
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by SOBF » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:02 pm

It's irrelevant as to whether I'm left or right.

There are legal ways for people to immigrate to this country. People are naturalized every day. I'm not sure, but I bet we have some sort of quota system. I have no problem with legal immigration. I do have a problem with illegals. They are a burden to our society, and we have enough problems of our own. We need to get serious about the illegal problem. Untill we do, we will be continually inundated with them, and the problem only gets worse. Ours, is no longer the land of plenty.

On a similar note. My wife is an elementary school teacher. She was forced to take a college level course, and become certified in English as a Second Language. This for all the children, of legal immigrants, who do not speak English. She now has several kids in her class who do not speak English. How difficult and time-consuming do you think that is? How does it effect the other kid's education? Somehow this doesn't seem right to me. Shouldn't they have to speak English before they enter our school system? If I moved to Mexico, I think I would learn the language, if for no other reason than to make my life simpler. I don't get this.
Well said Ditch. Holy fuck did I just say that? Seriously you nailed it. I have a heart ,but we simply cannot support everyone. I liken it to a life boat. If you have a capacity of 100 you simply cannot put 200 on the boat and risk all.

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eponymous
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by eponymous » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:10 pm

I often wonder why some folks in this country spend so much time berating our own country for how we deal with this issue. They should direct their vitriole to the folks who run Mexico. If those corrupt fuckbags had their shit together this would not be an issue we would ever speak of. Its not like we have huge issues with illegal immigration from Canada.

I feel bad for these folks. Many of them didn't ask for this and are just trying to survive. That said life ain't fair and the responsibiltiy should not fall entirely on us as the USofA. Mexico needs to begin pulling its weight. They have the resources - natural and otherwise - to have a more prosperous nation. Somebody in power needs to call them out. Maybe Springsteen could write a song about that.
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:08 am

Epon, I agree with your critiques of the powers that be in Mexico, but I think saying Mexico-corruption=Canada is a bit of a stretch.
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Mattb
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by Mattb » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:57 am

eponymous wrote:If those corrupt fuckbags had their shit together this would not be an issue we would ever speak of. Its not like we have huge issues with illegal immigration from Canada.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to make the Canada -> Mexico comparison. Mexico suffers mightily because of it's location. If Canada was between the US and the major source of drugs in this hemisphere, they'd probably have a lot more problems.
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:30 am

Mattb wrote:
eponymous wrote:If those corrupt fuckbags had their shit together this would not be an issue we would ever speak of. Its not like we have huge issues with illegal immigration from Canada.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to make the Canada -> Mexico comparison. Mexico suffers mightily because of it's location. If Canada was between the US and the major source of drugs in this hemisphere, they'd probably have a lot more problems.
Nope, drugs are not the main cause of corruption in Mexico. A tradition of corruption is.

Its safe to say that the lack of rule of law allows both problems to persist, but those in power like the status quo just fine.
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m.b.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by m.b. » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:11 pm

BigCliff wrote:
m.b. wrote:that's noble and all and i hear ya, but unfortunately it's not very realistic. if we paid for healthcare for every person on the planet (who couldn't afford it) we wouldn't have money to pay for ourselves.
My thoughts exactly.

I'd also disagree with MattB's points on the reliability of Mexico's medical system, because its Mexico. Certain parts of Mexico operate as much or more like a modern western city as the one I live in, but that is far from consistent across the whole country. If these folks could all be plopped in Monterrey, they'd likely be in good shape, but I'd be willing to bet that Monterrey hasn't maintained its level of civilization by openly taking all of those needing the most (and most expensive) help.

I don't know the solution to this situation, but the fact is that no organization is legally required to take care of these folks, and no corporation is doing well by their stockholders by doing so. The individual mandate expected to be part of the HCR pkg that passes would tax citizens that use emergency care but don't carry insurance, but that does nothing for these undocumented folks. We need to either get busy deporting them or put together a path to citizenship to get them documented, paying full taxes, and subject to mandatory HC insurance.

I know many object to the pathway to citizenship option, but that's the shitty option here that seems much more realistic and feasible. We've got two different craps we can take, but we gotta take one to get off this pot.
i like how you pulled the typical liberal move and removed any reference to God. nice.
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:33 pm

m.b. wrote:
BigCliff wrote:
m.b. wrote:that's noble and all and i hear ya, but unfortunately it's not very realistic. if we paid for healthcare for every person on the planet (who couldn't afford it) we wouldn't have money to pay for ourselves.
My thoughts exactly.
i like how you pulled the typical liberal move and removed any reference to God. nice.
Your sweeping generalization is misguided again bud.

I cut off quoting you there because I don't go along with the crap you posted about how all of our problems are due to liberal guilt, or whatever it was.

Of course God will forgive him. This is the politics section, not religion, and I'm one of those weirdos that goes along with the American tradition of separation of the two.
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m.b.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by m.b. » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:10 pm

uh..., i never mentioned "liberal guilt."

the separation is between religion and state, not politics. pay attention.
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:15 pm

m.b. wrote:uh..., i never mentioned "liberal guilt."
Got a better term for what you were referring to?
m.b. wrote:if we paid for healthcare for every person on the planet (who couldn't afford it) we wouldn't have money to pay for ourselves. this is one of the reasons (one of many...) why our country is now bankrupt.
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m.b.
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by m.b. » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:15 pm

got a better term for what? i was "referring" to troutsnot being concerned about how God would see him on judgement day. read it again and pay attention.

that's something i'm concerned about too. does that make me a liberal?

BigCliff wrote:Your sweeping generalization is misguided again bud.

I cut off quoting you there because I don't go along with the crap you posted about how all of our problems are due to liberal guilt, or whatever it was.

Of course God will forgive him. This is the politics section, not religion, and I'm one of those weirdos that goes along with the American tradition of separation of the two.
what was misguided?

and where did i post "...the crap you posted about how all of our problems are due to liberal guilt... ?"
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BigCliff
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Re: Calling all Lefties

Post by BigCliff » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:07 pm

m.b. wrote:got a better term for what? i was "referring" to troutsnot being concerned about how God would see him on judgement day. read it again and pay attention.

that's something i'm concerned about too. does that make me a liberal?

BigCliff wrote:Your sweeping generalization is misguided again bud.

I cut off quoting you there because I don't go along with the crap you posted about how all of our problems are due to liberal guilt, or whatever it was.

Of course God will forgive him. This is the politics section, not religion, and I'm one of those weirdos that goes along with the American tradition of separation of the two.
what was misguided?

and where did i post "...the crap you posted about how all of our problems are due to liberal guilt... ?"
Dood, you started a post explaining what you finished it by asking about. I can only assume you're trying to see how long this can keep going.
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