Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

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BigCliff
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by BigCliff » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:42 pm

Plow wrote:
BigCliff wrote:
Plow wrote:
How about just making the unemployment numbers go down - thats how it was done in the old days for both parties. I'm not buying the "jobs saved" BS.
Like this?
The unemployment rate in the U.S. unexpectedly declined in January to 9.7%, the lowest level since August, while payrolls dropped as companies boosted worker hours and overtime instead of taking on new hires.

Employment fell by 20,000 last month, reflecting a plunge in construction jobs and a drop in state and local government hiring, figures from the Labor Department in Washington showed. Economists had forecast a gain. Manufacturing employment, factory hours and overtime increased.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/wor ... z0foWyvwd8
You had to go all the way to Canada to find a story that didn't talk about the underlying problems with that number. That's rich.

The economy and jobs will improve on their own even with Obama shitting on it. That's the strength of this country.

My favorite part of the unemployment number is the 7 or 8% who are not counted as unemployed because they have become so frustrated that they just gave up looking for work. How cool is that for the politicians? Otherwise unemployment would be 17 or18%.
So since the facts disagree with you, you try to badmouth the source. (searching "unemployment" produces a fuckton of results. not wanting to join the club, I picked quickly.)

And after saying you'd just like Obama to preside over unemployment dropping off, you say that he has no connection to it anyways, and then delve into technicalities of the statistic.

You may not be blaming Bush, but that was as classic a "yeah, but but but" response as there ever has been.
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m.b.
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by m.b. » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:44 pm

Upsetter wrote:
m.b. wrote:if things are going so well why are the wheels coming of the obama administration?
Because nobody is better at lying than the rightwing spin machine and the dipshits that listen to those fuckwads are the braindrain on the nation. Smart conservatives know the stimulus worked, are aware of the actual numbers that are easy enough to find, but are rightly concerned about the deficit spending anyways. The dipshits think BO is a socialist, is trying to ruin america, is a terrorist sympathizer, is going to take their guns, ad nauseum. Im sure you see the difference. Most of the dipshits didnt care a whit about DC until they lost their jobs, then glenn beck told them it was all BO's fault, and they believed his dumbass.
m.b. wrote:why can he not get anything done, even when he had a supermajority? why are democrats losing elections all over the country, and why are members of congress dropping out before re-election? that dudn't tell you anything?
Again, cause the right wing spin machine has been very effective at reframing the debate so much so that for the dems to have tried to push anything thru would have resulted in trouble come 2010. AND, that is why folks like evan bayh are saying "fuck it", their colleagues on the left are spineless, are more concerned about being reelected than actually doing anything. Same goes for the right. I guess it goes to show that no matter how many speeches BO makes lambasting congress for being a bunch of pussy pos's, for the most part, they could care less.
m.b. wrote:what's gonna be great is to see what happens in Nov.

if things are going so well, why don't we curtail spending on the rest of the stim. money and do away with all the stuff that's bee appropriated over the next few years? why are we now robbing from out grandkids? why do we keep spending money we don't have?
Worst case, the spineless twats on the right will gain some seats and continue to ensure nothing gets done for the next two years as well. Your last points I cant really disagree with. I can only say the "need" is hidden in the various economic health stats that come out each quarter and economists far more knowledgeable than you or I are making those calls. It seems as though the executive is being cautious in its spending, so what you ask for just might happen.
yeah, cuz the "spin" coming out of fox offsets all the spin coming out of ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, and most major magazines and newspapers. that'd be real convenient if it were true.

dude, the right wing has been powerless for a year and the only mouthpiece they have is fox. it's time to grow a pair and own the fact that the agenda being pushed by obama and the lefties in congress is not being accepted by the American people and is failing. it's flattering that that you think the right wing is so powerful and influential, but it's irrelevant.
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by gadflyfisher » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:08 pm

How is the agenda he is pushing different from the one he was elected on?

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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by Upsetter » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:46 pm

m.b. wrote:yeah, cuz the "spin" coming out of fox offsets all the spin coming out of ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, and most major magazines and newspapers. that'd be real convenient if it were true.

dude, the right wing has been powerless for a year and the only mouthpiece they have is fox. it's time to grow a pair and own the fact that the agenda being pushed by obama and the lefties in congress is not being accepted by the American people and is failing. it's flattering that that you think the right wing is so powerful and influential, but it's irrelevant.
Wrong, the MSM did what its supposed to do, report on the news. Only msnbc focused on the right wing spin machine, but as you stated many times, they dont reach many viewers. What was making the news was all the dittoheads spewing the shit they got in chain emails sent out by freedomworks, americans for prosperity, frank luntz and his polling outfit word for word. Some of the points made no sense at all or were outright lies. Why do you think so many people would have shown up to those town hall meetings all saying the same shit, half of it not making any sense or being outright lies? Perhaps because they were fed to them by the spin machine. I even saw a bunch of the chain emails.

The right wing spin machine is much bigger than just fox, fox is their cable news mouthpeice, but limpdick and his ridiculous cohorts on talk radio also plague peoples' minds during their commutes and work days. It was damn effective. How else does something as assinine as death panels actually become part of a legit debate? The point I am trying to make is BO's actual agenda is besides the point, cause the right wing spin machine characterizes it as something it is not, and dipshits are lapping it up. Here is a great case in point re:the healthcare debate, straight from the motherfucker's mouth:
THE 10 RULES FOR STOPPING THE “WASHINGTON TAKEOVER” OF HEALTHCARE

(1) Humanize your approach. Abandon and exile ALL references to the “healthcare
system.” From now on, healthcare is about people. Before you speak, think of the three
components of tone that matter most: Individualize. Personalize. Humanize.

(2) Acknowledge the “crisis” or suffer the consequences. If you say there is no healthcare
crisis, you give your listener permission to ignore everything else you say. It is a
credibility killer for most Americans. A better approach is to define the crisis in your
terms. “If you’re one of the millions who can’t afford healthcare, it is a crisis.” Better
yet, “If some bureaucrat puts himself between you and your doctor, denying you
exactly what you need, that’s a crisis.” And the best: “If you have to wait weeks for
tests and months for treatment, that’s a healthcare crisis.”

(3) “Time” is the government healthcare killer. As Mick Jagger once sang, “Time is on
Your Side.” Nothing else turns people against the government takeover of healthcare
than the realistic expectation that it will result in delayed and potentially even denied
treatment, procedures and/or medications. “Waiting to buy a car or even a house won’t
kill you. But waiting for the healthcare you need – could. Delayed care is denied care.”

(4) The arguments against the Democrats’ healthcare plan must center around
“politicians,” “bureaucrats,” and “Washington” … not the free market, tax incentives,
or competition. Stop talking economic theory and start personalizing the impact of a
government takeover of healthcare. They don’t want to hear that you’re opposed to
government healthcare because it’s too expensive (any help from the government to
lower costs will be embraced) or because it’s anti-competitive (they don’t know about or
care about current limits to competition). But they are deathly afraid that a government
takeover will lower their quality of care – so they are extremely receptive to the anti-
Washington approach. It’s not an economic issue. It’s a bureaucratic issue.

(5) The healthcare denial horror stories from Canada & Co. do resonate, but you have
to humanize them. You’ll notice we recommend the phrase “government takeover”
rather than “government run” or “government controlled” It’s because too many
politician say “we don’t want a government run healthcare system like Canada or Great
Britain” without explaining those consequences. There is a better approach. “In
countries with government run healthcare, politicians make YOUR healthcare decisions.
THEY decide if you’ll get the procedure you need, or if you are disqualified because the
treatment is too expensive or because you are too old. We can’t have that in America.”
Dr. Frank I. Luntz – The Language of Healthcare 2009 2

(6) Healthcare quality = “getting the treatment you need, when you need it.” That is how
Americans define quality, and so should you. Once again, focus on the importance of
timeliness, but then add to it the specter of “denial.” Nothing will anger Americans more
than the chance that they will be denied the healthcare they need for whatever reason.
This is also important because it is an attribute of a government healthcare system that
the Democrats CANNOT offer. So say it. “The plan put forward by the Democrats
will deny people treatments they need and make them wait to get the treatments they
are allowed to receive.”

(7) “One-size-does-NOT-fit-all.” The idea that a “committee of Washington bureaucrats”
will establish the standard of care for all Americans and decide who gets what treatment
based on how much it costs is anathema to Americans. Your approach? Call for the
“protection of the personalized doctor-patient relationship.” It allows you to fight to
protect and improve something good rather than only fighting to prevent something bad.

(8) WASTE, FRAUD, and ABUSE are your best targets for how to bring down costs.
Make no mistake: the high cost of healthcare is still public enemy number one on this
issue – and why so many Americans (including Republicans and conservatives) think the
Democrats can handle healthcare better than the GOP. You can’t blame it on the lack of
a private market; in case you missed it, capitalism isn’t exactly in vogue these days. But
you can and should blame it on the waste, fraud, and abuse that is rampant in anything
and everything the government controls.

(9) Americans will expect the government to look out for those who truly can’t afford
healthcare. Here is the perfect sentence for addressing cost and the limited role for
government that wins you allies rather than enemies: “A balanced, common sense
approach that provides assistance to those who truly need it and keeps healthcare
patient-centered rather than government-centered for everyone.”

(10) It’s not enough to just say what you’re against. You have to tell them what you’re
for. It’s okay (and even necessary) for your campaign to center around why this
healthcare plan is bad for America. But if you offer no vision for what’s better for
America, you’ll be relegated to insignificance at best and labeled obstructionist at worst.
What Americans are looking for in healthcare that your “solution” will provide is, in a
word, more: “more access to more treatments and more doctors…with less interference
from insurance companies and Washington politicians and special interests.”

You simply MUST be vocally and passionately on the side of reform. The status quo
is no longer acceptable. If the dynamic becomes “President Obama is on the side of reform and
Republicans are against it,” then the battle is lost and every word in this document is useless.
Republicans must be for the right kind of reform that protects the quality of healthcare for all
Americans. And you must establish your support of reform early in your presentation.


http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/wp-co ... -20091.pdf

Any of that bullshit sound familiar? From this memo and other dipshits making up even more outlandish BS, we have the republican response to the healthcare debate. Was there any substance to any of it? NO! It was all about reframing the debate to make it look like, even after a gotdam public option was dropped, a govt takeover of healthcare, which was total bullshit. It is fucking disgusting politics is what it is.

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Plow
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by Plow » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:26 pm

Upsetter wrote:...response to the healthcare debate.
There was a debate? I must have been cooking dinner when it came on tv.

edit: One more thing. You never needed the Republicans you just needed to get all your guys to agree on something, anything, and shove it down America's throat (and then watch the country revolt).
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BigCliff
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by BigCliff » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:35 pm

BigCliff wrote:I find the praise of Bayh ridiculous. He decided that congress sucks and isn't functional, and that means he should give up on it.

His actions over the next ten months could prove me wrong, but for now, he sucks. (and I'm betting he'll replace Tauzin as head of PhRMA)
Alright, maybe he will prove me wrong. (I suggested 55 months ago)-
Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) said today that the Senate needs filibuster reform in order to overcome the "braindead partisanship" that is preventing it from getting anything done.

On MSNBC, Bayh said "we need to look at the filibuster and reform" it in order to stop partisan deadlock in the Senate.

He also referenced the Civil Rights-era Senate tenure of his father, Sen. Birch Bayh, when "the filibuster was being used to frustrate some basic fundamental equities in this country." In response, the vote total needed to break a filibuster was lowered from 67 votes to 60.

"Perhaps the threshold should be lowered once again," he said, adding that 55 might be the right number.
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Plow
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by Plow » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:56 pm

The filibuster forces compromise and encourages bipartisanship. Lower the number to break and all you’ll get are partisan bills from the majority party.

You dems need to learn how to play with the other kids in class…
Better Reds than dead...

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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by Upsetter » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:04 pm

Ummmm, yeah Plow, there was a debate, remember the senate finance committee? Remember when Baucus and Grassly were trying to work out a bipartisan compromise? Remember the version that got Snowe's vote, only to have Grassly start singing the death panel tune two weeks later back in his district in the lead up to the town halls where all hell broke loose? That was the exact point in time when dick armey, frank luntz, beck, hannity, limpdick, etal, took over the republican party and made every reasonable repub turn tail and run from anything resembling bipartisanship. I had to laugh when this bullshit culminated in every repub who said something disparraiging about limpdick having to publicly apologize. LOL! What a sad state of affairs the right is in! This is why I throw up in my mouth a little every time I hear those pos's talk about bipartisanship now like its what they wanted all along. :vomit It is also why I laughed my ass off when that dipshit Boner had to eat a dick when he found out repubs were going to be televised on cspan during the health summit. What a hypocrit! Seriously, as much as the left needs to vote out a bunch of pos encumbants, the right needs it even worse.

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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by LTD » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:42 pm

My team.....your team.....my dicks bigger...no mine is......
I really don't think one team needs anything more than the other...they are both equally fucked up. You guys sound like a bunch of Jr. High Cheerleaders fighting over who's pom pom squad is the best. :cheer :cheer :cheer
A little honestly from everyone even when you are wrong might allow us to solve the worlds problems. Might also make the midget happy. Ahhhhhh never mind..... fuck the midget.
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

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Fish every fish like it's your last!!!

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m.b.
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by m.b. » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:47 pm

Upsetter wrote:
m.b. wrote:yeah, cuz the "spin" coming out of fox offsets all the spin coming out of ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, and most major magazines and newspapers. that'd be real convenient if it were true.

dude, the right wing has been powerless for a year and the only mouthpiece they have is fox. it's time to grow a pair and own the fact that the agenda being pushed by obama and the lefties in congress is not being accepted by the American people and is failing. it's flattering that that you think the right wing is so powerful and influential, but it's irrelevant.
Wrong, the MSM did what its supposed to do, report on the news. Only msnbc focused on the right wing spin machine, but as you stated many times, they dont reach many viewers. What was making the news was all the dittoheads spewing the shit they got in chain emails sent out by freedomworks, americans for prosperity, frank luntz and his polling outfit word for word. Some of the points made no sense at all or were outright lies. Why do you think so many people would have shown up to those town hall meetings all saying the same shit, half of it not making any sense or being outright lies? Perhaps because they were fed to them by the spin machine. I even saw a bunch of the chain emails.

The right wing spin machine is much bigger than just fox, fox is their cable news mouthpeice, but limpdick and his ridiculous cohorts on talk radio also plague peoples' minds during their commutes and work days. It was damn effective. How else does something as assinine as death panels actually become part of a legit debate? The point I am trying to make is BO's actual agenda is besides the point, cause the right wing spin machine characterizes it as something it is not, and dipshits are lapping it up. Here is a great case in point re:the healthcare debate, straight from the motherfucker's mouth:

...

Any of that bullshit sound familiar? nope, never seen any of it before, but some of it is pretty damn good and worth using/doing. From this memo and other dipshits making up even more outlandish BS, we have the republican response to the healthcare debate. Was there any substance to any of it? NO! It was all about reframing the debate to make it look like, even after a gotdam public option was dropped, a govt takeover of healthcare, which was total bullshit. It is fucking disgusting politics is what it is.
all you're doing is:

a.) making more excuses, toting the party line, and blaming someone else (who happened to be completely impotent during all this) for the fact that your boys couldn't get anything done despite their opposition being completely powerless

and

b.) like most liberals who think they know better than all others, being condescending (yet again) by saying that the majority of Americans who happen to get their news from a variety of media sources are too stupid to make their own decisions and only do what Fox and talk radio tell them to do (completely disregard the fact that IF that were true, Obama never would have been elected in the first place...).

it's unbecoming and pretty pathetic.




that you think conservatives wield so much power and influence, while flattering, is irrelevant.
Last edited by m.b. on Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Plow
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Re: Yep, he's soft on terror, and clueless on business...

Post by Plow » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:39 pm

Upsetter wrote:Ummmm, yeah Plow, there was a debate, remember the senate finance committee? Remember when Baucus and Grassly were trying to work out a bipartisan compromise? Remember the version that got Snowe's vote, only to have Grassly start singing the death panel tune two weeks later back in his district in the lead up to the town halls where all hell broke loose? That was the exact point in time when dick armey, frank luntz, beck, hannity, limpdick, etal, took over the republican party and made every reasonable repub turn tail and run from anything resembling bipartisanship. I had to laugh when this bullshit culminated in every repub who said something disparraiging about limpdick having to publicly apologize. LOL! What a sad state of affairs the right is in! This is why I throw up in my mouth a little every time I hear those pos's talk about bipartisanship now like its what they wanted all along. :vomit It is also why I laughed my ass off when that dipshit Boner had to eat a dick when he found out repubs were going to be televised on cspan during the health summit. What a hypocrit! Seriously, as much as the left needs to vote out a bunch of pos encumbants, the right needs it even worse.
Why are you focused on the republicans. It was your very own democrats that killed this thing. It was a horrible bill and a worse process, this country deserves better.

Keep throwing up in your mouth, might help kill the taste of all that democrat shit you've been eating.
Better Reds than dead...

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