User avatar
By Upsetter
#599564
Plow wrote:Republican plan was lets talk about it and come to a compromise. Any rational thinking person could see what a fucking mess it was to become.
Truth be told, they did. Baucus and Grassley worked out 90% of it in the senate finance committee. The only disagreement was on how to fund it from a tax perspective. You forget this was a heritage foundation idea to begin with and first implemented by a republican governor. It was a bipartisan compromise until everything went to hell in a handbasket because those who hated obama werent having any of it. It hasnt affected me other than its failed to stop the non-stop 10%+ inflation rate of healthcare costs, which I barely use, so Im out $9000 for basically nothing in return...year in and year out. But thats nothing new...as the fucking world turns.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#599565
Plow wrote:
BigCliff wrote:Ah ok, so you're paid with our dollars and only doing actual work 15% of the time...
Don't confuse your work ethics with mine.

If you feel that way then why are you such a big government whore? Makes no sense.
I just know that in some situations, the government provided/created solution makes the most sense. Not all, but some. I've gained this understanding by having a good education, a degree in economics, and from being a rational fucking grownup.

But once again, wouldn't a "big government whore" be one who makes their money from big government?

Never heard the parable about glass houses, huh?
User avatar
By SLSS
#599567
Upsetter wrote:
Plow wrote:Republican plan was lets talk about it and come to a compromise. Any rational thinking person could see what a fucking mess it was to become.
Truth be told, they did. Baucus and Grassley worked out 90% of it in the senate finance committee. The only disagreement was on how to fund it from a tax perspective. You forget this was a heritage foundation idea to begin with and first implemented by a republican governor. It was a bipartisan compromise until everything went to hell in a handbasket because those who hated obama werent having any of it. It hasnt affected me other than its failed to stop the non-stop 10%+ inflation rate of healthcare costs, which I barely use, so Im out $9000 for basically nothing in return...year in and year out. But thats nothing new...as the fucking world turns.
Exactly on the background. I think the repubs got sidetracked by their No 1 goal of ousting Obama, and have pretty much dropped the ball on everything. I do think from what I've read, the law is a clusterfuck, but will hopefully be improved upon if we can ever get a rational group of people working together on laws again.

Most of what I have read is saying that it has effectively reduced the rate of growth in premiums- which is a start. There is so much vitriol about the law, which I find to be way more political than rational, that it is very difficult to divine any info you are completely confident in.

And Up, we've paid for years, and with rare, minor exceptions, never used it. Until 3 years ago. SInce then, I've got our money's worth out if it, and then some. Might be a wash, but I know we wouldn't have had the money saved sitting their waiting for the need to arise. About 6 months before I was diagnosed, I'd had a physical after which my doctor told me I was healthy as a horse. Six months later he was visibly stunned telling me I had cancer, as I had zero risk factors and none of the habits associated with the cancer I got. Last summer, after another physical a year and half out, I was told, I know you have cancer, but you're insanely healthy. Otherwise.

Healthy now.

So count your blessings. Pay your premiums. Live every day.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#599568
SLSS wrote:So count your blessings. Pay your premiums. Live every day.
I know, I know. Im just joining in on the "bitchy bitches bitching about bitches" theme of late. Glad to hear you cleared that round in good shape. :cool
User avatar
By SLSS
#599579
Upsetter wrote:
SLSS wrote:So count your blessings. Pay your premiums. Live every day.
I know, I know. Im just joining in on the "bitchy bitches bitching about bitches" theme of late. Glad to hear you cleared that round in good shape. :cool
I probably knew that.

The conversation no one seems to have is why do we pay so much more for nearly very aspect of healthcare in this country than elsewhere, and by almost every measure other than political, we have nowhere near "the finest healthcare system in the world".

Money's going into someone's pocket, and we are not getting what we pay for in comparison to other countries.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#599583
SLSS wrote:
Upsetter wrote:
SLSS wrote:So count your blessings. Pay your premiums. Live every day.
I know, I know. Im just joining in on the "bitchy bitches bitching about bitches" theme of late. Glad to hear you cleared that round in good shape. :cool
I probably knew that.

The conversation no one seems to have is why do we pay so much more for nearly very aspect of healthcare in this country than elsewhere, and by almost every measure other than political, we have nowhere near "the finest healthcare system in the world".

Money's going into someone's pocket, and we are not getting what we pay for in comparison to other countries.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27520&p=596206#p596127
User avatar
By SLSS
#599592
BigCliff wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27520&p=596206#p596127
Hard to argue with on the surface- I think that's at least part of it.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#599595
SLSS wrote:The conversation no one seems to have is why do we pay so much more for nearly very aspect of healthcare in this country than elsewhere, and by almost every measure other than political, we have nowhere near "the finest healthcare system in the world".
No price controls. When the whole system is run by the national government, it can place price controls for market access to companies making everything from medical devices to drugs. The american market is the only one in the world where price controls dont exist. Instead, as a brain child of post-world war II utopia, we have employer sponsored health insurance which has allowed our pricing models to not only escape the reality of price controls, but also to escape the reality of marketplace competition for healthcare.

If you had to face up to the reality of your poor lifestyle choices in terms of continuing treatment costs, instead of being able to slough those costs on risk sharing pools, I think americans wouldnt be near as unhealthy as they are. Those who couldnt control themselves would be broke and/or dead and those still alive would be much healthier by way of financial necessity. We would also be demanding lower prices and getting them cause someone would undercut the competition. Right now, its a comfy ride for medical providers, whose only headache is the insurance companies they deal with. There is no real competition in terms realized by every other market sector, including every other insurance market.
User avatar
By SLSS
#599604
Upsetter wrote:
SLSS wrote:The conversation no one seems to have is why do we pay so much more for nearly very aspect of healthcare in this country than elsewhere, and by almost every measure other than political, we have nowhere near "the finest healthcare system in the world".
No price controls. When the whole system is run by the national government, it can place price controls for market access to companies making everything from medical devices to drugs. The american market is the only one in the world where price controls dont exist. Instead, as a brain child of post-world war II utopia, we have employer sponsored health insurance which has allowed our pricing models to not only escape the reality of price controls, but also to escape the reality of marketplace competition for healthcare.

If you had to face up to the reality of your poor lifestyle choices in terms of continuing treatment costs, instead of being able to slough those costs on risk sharing pools, I think americans wouldnt be near as unhealthy as they are. Those who couldnt control themselves would be broke and/or dead and those still alive would be much healthier by way of financial necessity. We would also be demanding lower prices and getting them cause someone would undercut the competition. Right now, its a comfy ride for medical providers, whose only headache is the insurance companies they deal with. There is no real competition in terms realized by every other market sector, including every other insurance market.
Yes. My cousin, uber conservative, is a labor lawyer in the PNW. Has had lots of contact with the health care field, and that is his only complaint with Affordable Care. Should be paying for outcomes, not services, taking away the profit incentive for various forms of treatment.
User avatar
By Plow
#599605
cantfishforshit. wrote:Even if that were true, I still find it ironic that a government job saved your ass and yet you complain about big government.
My ass didn't need saving, it was the job I chose. Working 40 hours a week seemed like a vacation at the time.
User avatar
By Plow
#599606
BigCliff wrote: I just know that in some situations, the government provided/created solution makes the most sense. Not all, but some. I've gained this understanding by having a good education, a degree in economics, and from being a rational fucking grownup.
What in the hell has government done to make you think they should run our health care system? What in your "education" made you think they could do it? You're not rational, you're a partisan hack.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#599663
Plow wrote:
BigCliff wrote: I just know that in some situations, the government provided/created solution makes the most sense. Not all, but some. I've gained this understanding by having a good education, a degree in economics, and from being a rational fucking grownup.
What in the hell has government done to make you think they should run our health care system? What in your "education" made you think they could do it? You're not rational, you're a partisan hack.
Roughly nobody in the US is advocating that the gov't run the healthcare system. Even single payer insurance is just insurance, which is maybe a fifth of the total healthcare system. Hundreds of other countries do this, and many of them do it quite well. The Israeli model makes the most sense to me-
Romney's point about Israel's success in controlling health care costs is spot on: Its health care system has seen health care costs grow much slower than other industrialized nations...

Israel created a national health care system in 1995, largely funded through payroll and general tax revenue. The government provides all citizens with health insurance: They get to pick from one of four competing, nonprofit plans. Those insurance plans have to accept all customers—including people with pre-existing conditions—and provide residents with a broad set of government-mandated benefits.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... own-costs/
The portion of my education that deals most directly with our healthcare predicament is the economic concept of market failure and situations dictating where gov't regulation of business is necessary- situations of imperfect/asymmetrical information, natural monopoly, principal-agent problems and externalities. I think that market based competition is a very positive force for health device, drug, and provider services, but having profit motivated firms in charge of insurance does more bad than good.

After all-
actually paying for your health care is a loss from an insurers’ point of view — they actually refer to it as “medical costs.” This means both that insurers try to deny as many claims as possible, and that they try to avoid covering people who are actually likely to need care. Both of these strategies use a lot of resources, which is why private insurance has much higher administrative costs than single-payer systems. And since there’s a widespread sense that our fellow citizens should get the care we need — not everyone agrees, but most do — this means that private insurance basically spends a lot of money on socially destructive activities.
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