#562024
It just comes down to who you want to pay: China or an American. Plow, while seldom if ever coming up with an alternative idea of his own, would prefer the cheap china shit while paying out to all of the social programs his state has evidently. I think you'd call/justify it with "its legal and its what the market allows", right? A real winner come election time on a national stage...

The math is simple Plow: Look at the cost of living, even in a welfare state like yours, and then factor what you get with the minimum wage and see if you can live. Oh yea...Mississippi loves it's state control and residents so much, they don't have one, so they resort to the baseline, barebones, federal minimum wage. Do the math, be objective, and don't bore us with how they can magically earn a BS in BS and get out of poverty if they just "tried harder" or some such shit...

Oh shit, a cup of coffee just went from $3.50 to $3.75 or $3.95...I'm gonna have to find the extra change under the seats of my giant SUV...the economy is crumbling! :bullshit
#562032
Not to mention that if our national wage was higher, we would have more purchasing power. If I'm suddenly making $15 an hour, the guy in Italy or Tibet doesn't suddenly get a raise too. The way it's going, we will have no more purchasing power than the Chinese or Mexicans in a few years. There would be cost increases here, but not in the places we buy stuff from and if we travelled, our dollars would go further.
#562042
cantfishforshit wrote: Consumers do NOT pay for EVERY business cost.
Oh, I forgot about the magic cost paying fairy. If not the fairy then I'm dying to know who's paying cost than can only be covered under "EVERY".

VTNZ, CFFS, you guys were DEAD WRONG on obamacare. Y'all are incapable of thinking outside your agenda. I brought up jobs lost in a hike and y'all ignored that. Purchasing power without a job is pretty much nada.

Raise MW to 15 bucks from 7+ bucks and everyone under 15 gets a raise. Some jobs are based on MW and make n number of dollars more over MW (some unions do this). The ripple affect through the pay scale with a 15 buck raise is enormous. Imagine if you've worked hard for a few years to make 15 an hour and suddenly every employed noob makes the same, you're going to demand a bump to justify your hard work and worth over noobs. Many businesses can't afford that.

Raising the MW is not just about who pays cost, when cost are passed on or the cost of a cup of coffee. Those are the trivial points. Y'all are heading down the same path you took with obamacare. And is raising the MW really an issue voters want to see on the front burner? Jobs, economy, education, unemployments and terrorism would be way above that IMHO.
#562046
Plow- my points about the MW are not meant to be clouded with Romneycare...though blurring the lines is a popular political tactic. While the both can have impacts on how businesses are run they are not inclusive of each other.

Where did I ever in any post make a recommendation to jump the current MW to $15 ?!?

I never did. MW increases have to be done in increments largely because of some of the issues you point out. NZ has raised theirs 25c and 50c over the past 2-3 years. No end of the world, and done by a center right party, w/ the chamber of bidness' blessing.

How about $10/hr...raised over 3-5 years. The Fed MW. Do you really think the world ends as we know it?
#562058
VTNZ wrote:Plow- my points about the MW are not meant to be clouded with Romneycare...though blurring the lines is a popular political tactic. While the both can have impacts on how businesses are run they are not inclusive of each other.

Where did I ever in any post make a recommendation to jump the current MW to $15 ?!?

I never did. MW increases have to be done in increments largely because of some of the issues you point out. NZ has raised theirs 25c and 50c over the past 2-3 years. No end of the world, and done by a center right party, w/ the chamber of bidness' blessing.

How about $10/hr...raised over 3-5 years. The Fed MW. Do you really think the world ends as we know it?

^This. Also, you asked me to tell you costs that don't get passed on to the consumer. Do some research. The fact that you don't know is telling.
#562112
B.M. Barrelcooker wrote:I hope your guiding business does well. Success and growth and good fortune will be a fabulous education. Seriously.

BM, I've owned a small business before. I should have expanded it and quit my career as a chemist. A big mistake. I'll never make that one again. There is nothing like having enough coming in that you can drop a client if they get out of hand. I could have been in that situation. Having said that, I fully realize, from previous and current experience, that marketing is my largest obstacle...at least right now. It's going to be a part time job, at best, for the first few years, but I am going to give it my best shot because I love it. I also know, from owning my own business, that if costs go up, let's say on industrial strength cleaner (I owned an industrial cleaning business), that I can't pass that on to the consumer every time. There is a price point. Some other guy out there had his costs go up too, but instead of increasing costs, and risking losing too much business, he ate it for now. In a few years, when it happens again, I may have to raise prices, but not EVERY time...not ALWAYS. Also, my point about the CEO pay is spot on. Those fucks have all the money in the world to pay underperforming CEO's but the rest of us have our hands our for bread crumbs. Fuck that. I want systems in place that keep me from going bankrupt if I have medical issues. I don't care if some CEO has to make $15 million a year instead of $20 million a year to do it. Having said that, I realize we have our limits. We will have to eliminate bull shit waste in ALL areas to do it.
#562122
cantfishforshit wrote: Also, you asked me to tell you costs that don't get passed on to the consumer. Do some research. The fact that you don't know is telling.
Sounds to me you're too ashamed at the ridiculousness of your answer to utter it. I suppose that could be considered progress for you.

VTNZ, point of bring up obamacare is to show the left (y'all included) completely ignored the potential problems and focused on nothing but kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings. When the realities of obamacare showed up y'all were dumbfounded.

Same thing is happening with MW, nothing but kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings.

Since we're in a Out-Of-Touch thread how OOT are libs to think MW is even on the averages top 20 list of things that need to change in this country? How about y'all work on the jobs and maybe clean-up the mess after obamacare. Far, far more important things to worry about today.
#562130
Plow wrote:
cantfishforshit wrote: Also, you asked me to tell you costs that don't get passed on to the consumer. Do some research. The fact that you don't know is telling.
Sounds to me you're too ashamed at the ridiculousness of your answer to utter it. I suppose that could be considered progress for you.

VTNZ, point of bring up obamacare is to show the left (y'all included) completely ignored the potential problems and focused on nothing but kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings. When the realities of obamacare showed up y'all were dumbfounded.

Same thing is happening with MW, nothing but kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings.

Since we're in a Out-Of-Touch thread how OOT are libs to think MW is even on the averages top 20 list of things that need to change in this country? How about y'all work on the jobs and maybe clean-up the mess after obamacare. Far, far more important things to worry about today.
Once again Plow, you're showing that no one can whoop the ever living shit out of a straw man like you.

Those of us in favor of Obamacare have never portrayed it as flawless, but rather a worthwhile improvement on the market failures that existed beforehand. Acting as though what we had before it was good enough can only be the result of either "kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings" or serious delusion. The other side continues to fail at coming up with anything that would work as well- http://managinghealthcarecosts.blogspot ... -full.html

I think you're also underestimating the backing for a MW increase-
On minimum wage, voters support raising the federally mandated minimum, 72 percent to 27 percent, including a majority of Republicans, who support it 52 percent to 45 percent, according to a Quinnipiac poll out Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/m ... z2wvKxPeZS
#562139
BigCliff wrote: Those of us in favor of Obamacare have never portrayed it as flawless, but rather a worthwhile improvement on the market failures that existed beforehand
Cliff, you're the poster boy for whats wrong with American politics today. You couldn't have a two sided discussion about flipping coins.

Obamacare has made a great health care system worse and worse in ways that enlighten discussion and compromise could have prevented.

When legitimate concerns were raised your ONLY concern was how can you dismiss it as trivial (came from FOX, someone who read the article liked Palin, or whatever) and get back to those kumbaya, happy talk and good time feelings times. At some point libs have got to put doing the right thing over party and agenda. If we have to pass one more bill to see whats in it were done for
#562141
Compromise?

The Tea Jihadis?

Who's out of touch?
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