#562143
Obamacare may or may not be the answer. I do know that what we had before wasn't working. It was getting to be ridiculously expensive. We have to address costs. This was a first step. Like most steps forward in life, it may first require a step back. We will see. In the end, at least we are moving forward...even if it means making a few mistakes first. As far as me "being afraid of my answers," your question was answered in my last response to BM. If you don't have the brains to see it, that's too bad for you.
#562182
Plow wrote:
BigCliff wrote: Those of us in favor of Obamacare have never portrayed it as flawless, but rather a worthwhile improvement on the market failures that existed beforehand
Cliff, you're the poster boy for whats wrong with American politics today. You couldn't have a two sided discussion about flipping coins.
Speaking of poster boy...
Psychological projection is the act or technique of defending yourself against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in yourself, while attributing them to others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
User avatar
By Jon
#562202
Plow wrote:[
Raising the min wage will cost jobs or hours, you done that math yet?...Bottom line is consumers pay for EVERY business cost. EVERY. Just passed down one way or another. Consider all angles or fail.
"...the business cost increase relative to sales figure given a 44.8-percent minimum wage hike (to $10.50/hr) would be 2.7 percent (0.0454 x 0.448 0.6363 = 0.027). Therefore, a price increase sufficient to cover half of this rise in costs would amount to a 1.35% (2.7%/2). For a $4.00 Big Mac, a 1.35% increase equals about 5 cents."

Link to study
#562206
That's fine and well for the big corps like Mickey D's....they could absorb it...for a while. It's the Mom and Pops that are already suffering.

I'm all for someone making a livable wage. But, I think it's all about compromise. YOu want a higher MW, then right to work should pass in all places. I'm disgusted by laziness, not that all people are, but if someone is paying a higher wage for someone to the same job that they bitch about or could give a shit about, let's get someone in there who does care.
#562211
Jon wrote:
Plow wrote:[
Raising the min wage will cost jobs or hours, you done that math yet?...Bottom line is consumers pay for EVERY business cost. EVERY. Just passed down one way or another. Consider all angles or fail.
"...the business cost increase relative to sales figure given a 44.8-percent minimum wage hike (to $10.50/hr) would be 2.7 percent (0.0454 x 0.448 0.6363 = 0.027). Therefore, a price increase sufficient to cover half of this rise in costs would amount to a 1.35% (2.7%/2). For a $4.00 Big Mac, a 1.35% increase equals about 5 cents."

Link to study
Thats all fine and dandy but what about lost jobs, lost hours and other consciences? If obamacare taught us one thing it should be to consider every issue not just what suites the agenda.
User avatar
By Jon
#562302
"Our estimated employment responses generally cluster near zero, and are more likely to be positive than negative. Few of our point estimates are precise enough to rule out either positive or negative employment effects, but statistically significant positive employment responses outnumber statistically significant negative elasticities....The results for fast food, food services, retail, and low-wage establishments in San Francisco and Santa Fe support the view that a citywide minimum wages can raise the earnings of low-wage workers, without a discernible impact on their employment." [Center for Economic and Policy Research, March 2011]

"In examining state-level small business job growth, the best government data available permits a comparison of 1998 and 2003; the latter is the most recent year for which the data are available. For the 10 states and the District of Columbia that had set their minimum wages above the federal level for most of this period, indicators of economic performance were consistently better than for the other 40 states where the federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour prevailed." [Fiscal Policy Institute, 3/30/06]

"Just eight miles separate this town on the Washington side of the state border from Post Falls on the Idaho side. But the towns are nearly $3 an hour apart in the required minimum wage. Washington pays the highest in the nation, just under $8 an hour, and Idaho has among the lowest, matching 21 states that have not raised the hourly wage beyond the federal minimum of $5.15.

Nearly a decade ago, when voters in Washington approved a measure that would give the state's lowest-paid workers a raise nearly every year, many business leaders predicted that small towns on this side of the state line would suffer.

But instead of shriveling up, small-business owners in Washington say they have prospered far beyond their expectations. In fact, as a significant increase in the national minimum wage heads toward law, businesses here at the dividing line between two economies -- a real-life laboratory for the debate -- have found that raising prices to compensate for higher wages does not necessarily lead to losses in jobs and profits.

Idaho teenagers cross the state line to work in fast-food restaurants in Washington, where the minimum wage is 54 percent higher. That has forced businesses in Idaho to raise their wages to compete.

Business owners say they have had to increase prices somewhat to keep up. But both states are among the nation's leaders in the growth of jobs and personal income, suggesting that an increase in the minimum wage has not hurt the overall economy.

'We're paying the highest wage we've ever had to pay, and our business is still up more than 11 percent over last year,' said Tom Singleton, who manages a Papa Murphy's takeout pizza store here, with 13 employees."
[The New York Times, 1/11/07]
#562483
this is pretty much right on.
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#562490
Jon wrote:[Center for Economic and Policy Research, March 2011] (George Soros funded group, leans left, exactly what'd you expect from them)

[Fiscal Policy Institute, 3/30/06]

[The New York Times, 1/11/07]


Notice the dates, unemployment was running between 4.4 to 4.8. No obamacare and no Obama to worry about. Apples and oranges to today.

Take a look at North Dakota, I bet no one is making minimum wager up there. Seriously, even burger flippers make more than MW and look what its done for the economy.
User avatar
By Jon
#562526
Plow wrote: Notice the dates, unemployment was running between 4.4 to 4.8. No obamacare and no Obama to worry about. Apples and oranges to today.
The quoted studies ('06 - '07) were done around the last time Congress voted to increase the federal MW. If there have been any more recent ones that refute those findings, put 'em up.
#562529
Jon wrote:
Plow wrote: Notice the dates, unemployment was running between 4.4 to 4.8. No obamacare and no Obama to worry about. Apples and oranges to today.
The quoted studies ('06 - '07) were done around the last time Congress voted to increase the federal MW. If there have been any more recent ones that refute those findings, put 'em up.
The economy was totally different.
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