User avatar
By Plow
#566029
slavetotheflyrod wrote:
The government does have liens on the cattle which is why they impounded them. I don't believe they have the ability to lien his real estate for the grazing fee debt, but I could be wrong. In any case, it wouldn't matter, because the Bundy place is owner by the Bundy Family Revocable Trust, according to the county recorder, not Cliven Bundy. Odds are that property stays in the family for at least another generation at least so it'd be a long damn time before any lien got settled.

Now, to the heart of the matter:

Bundy has fought his battle in court to it's conclusion and lost every step of the way. He's been given his due process, time and time again, and court after court has found the debt valid. This has gone on for 20 years now and the tab is over a million bucks, so let me ask you Mr. Plow - How long would YOU wait to collect your million bucks and change? And after 20 years of asking nicely could he pretty please pay his grazing fees they finally get around to impounding the cattle - if there's anything about this scenario so far that should upset you it's that they waited so long to impound the beef. As for the show of force - again, what would you do Mr. Plow? This fool owes a million plus dollars, the courts have confirmed that fact, now you have a court order to seize the beef and all of a sudden Mr. Bundy and his ilk are threatening violence and doing so with clear intent and capability. Would you send another letter? Leave him another voice mail?

If it were my money and his cows, he'd be in a hole in the ground and I'd be dining on his beef right about 180 days after he was past due.

And I feel like that's more than fair (to him).

So if we're upset still lets be upset that the BLM has allowed this situation to fester for so long. This should have been dealt with and this money collected and returned to the treasury a long time ago. Whatever happens to Bundy and these feeble minded followers of his is irrelevant.
Killing someone 'cause they're 180 days behind is a lossy solution BTW.

All the government can do is keep his cattle off the land and slap on as many liens as law will allow. I don't think a revocable trust will protect shit (at least not from the IRS). If the government wants your land they can take it for far less that Bundy's problems (especially in todays political environment).

Oh, and the government needs to convince the American people that Bundy does NOT have free rights to graze on that land AND that the government (BLM) does indeed own it.
By gadflyfisher
#566045
Back at ya Blumps!
I respect and read everything everyone is writing whether they agree with me or not.
User avatar
By jdub
#566047
Plow wrote:All the government can do is keep his cattle off the land and slap on as many liens as law will allow.
Uhhh.... well actually they can't. That is what the hell they were doing in the first place before the Faux trucks and cracker jacks showed up cradling their anti-fed weaponry. If they COULD get the cattle off the land, then the problem would be solved and the little tortoise would be a happier camper.

I don't think you are paying attention.
User avatar
By slavetotheflyrod
#566051
Plow,

In this particular instance timeframe has no relevance whatsoever, be it 180 days or 180 years, the fact remains Bundy ain't paying up simply because he refuses to acknowledge the existence of the federal govt. The family trust pretty much ensures that the ranch will remain in the Bundy family from one genaration to the next without any transfer of title. Without any formal transfer of title a lien is basically useless. Honestly, this guy has been given more opportunities to make his case and has failed every time.

Now, just why exactly does the BLM need to "prove" anything to the public? They've proved their case time and time again in court, the records of which are all public records. If anyone needs to provide some supporting evidence it's Bundy. He sez his family's been on that land since 1870, the Clark county clerk and recorder has no mention of the name Bundy in the official register until 1948. So it's a matter of one mans word versus the public record. If anyone dropped the ball here and added fuel to the fire it's the media that couldn't be bothered to research the facts and present them until after the situation had nearly erupted in violence.

The BLM needs to put on their big boy pants, head back out there and seize those cattle. After they're sold at auction they can go after whatever other real property Bundy has to cover the difference. If Bundy and his militia buddies don't like it and want a shoot out, I say give it to em. This world would be a better place without this bunch of armed, ignorant fucks.

Now, since you never really answered, I'll ask again- if it were your money what would you do?
User avatar
By Plow
#566052
jdub wrote:
Plow wrote:All the government can do is keep his cattle off the land and slap on as many liens as law will allow.
Uhhh.... well actually they can't. That is what the hell they were doing in the first place before the Faux trucks and cracker jacks showed up cradling their anti-fed weaponry. If they COULD get the cattle off the land, then the problem would be solved and the little tortoise would be a happier camper.

I don't think you are paying attention.
Feds can't handle this and you want them to run healthcare. Maybe they should "return" the land to the state and let them handle it.

Yet another simple solution.

First make Bundy a really good deal (pennies on dollars) to pay up and get with the program.

Then slap a lien (grazing fees, gov expenses, yada, yada, yada) on his cattle and make buyers pay off the lien before processing. What cattle buyer wants to fuck with that headache especially when feds control beef processing. Cattle bidness is a competitive bidness, Bundy will have to eat the lien amount plus some if he want to sell.
User avatar
By berzerker
#566141
All you guys crying about the unpaid grazing fees, let me ask you this. The original amount owed was around 200k, compounded with interest thru the years to about 1mil. This little exercise of armed government oppression by the BLM cost close to three million dollars. Where is the logic in that? That's bad business. If recouping the loss cost 3x what the original loss is, most real businesses write it off. But since ppl like Harry Reid and Neal kornze exist, and have a completely distorted view of the supposed power they possess, we get an expensive armed incursion. I hope it happens again and I hope every armed agent gets gunned down.
User avatar
By cantfishforshit
#566142
berzerker wrote:All you guys crying about the unpaid grazing fees, let me ask you this. The original amount owed was around 200k, compounded with interest thru the years to about 1mil. This little exercise of armed government oppression by the BLM cost close to three million dollars. Where is the logic in that? That's bad business. If recouping the loss cost 3x what the original loss is, most real businesses write it off. But since ppl like Harry Reid and Neal kornze exist, and have a completely distorted view of the supposed power they possess, we get an expensive armed incursion. I hope it happens again and I hope every armed agent gets gunned down.

If you want everyone to start doing what Bundy did, ignore it because it isn't worth the cost. If you let someone set a precedent, you will lose a lot more than $3 million.
User avatar
By berzerker
#566151
Bwahahhahahaha! We lose waaaaaaay more than 3 mil a day, Medicare fraud, welfare fraud, ssi fraud, political graft, illegal immigrants draining state coffers, ad fuckin nauseum. One fuckin rancher in the middle of nowhere? The juice ain't worth the squeeze.
User avatar
By MTgrayling
#566152
berzerker wrote:All you guys crying about the unpaid grazing fees, let me ask you this. The original amount owed was around 200k, compounded with interest thru the years to about 1mil. This little exercise of armed government oppression by the BLM cost close to three million dollars. Where is the logic in that? That's bad business. If recouping the loss cost 3x what the original loss is, most real businesses write it off. But since ppl like Harry Reid and Neal kornze exist, and have a completely distorted view of the supposed power they possess, we get an expensive armed incursion. I hope it happens again and I hope every armed agent gets gunned down.

Justice only after a cost benefit analysis is justice perverted.

People need to think about shit.


What if this rancher was Muslim, instead of mormon, and had an armed "militia" backing him?

What if this rancher was trashing critical desert habitat of a threatened trout species??



Cliven Bundy needs to be crushed and made an example of.
User avatar
By berzerker
#566154
And who will they crush next? Who will be the next example? Our govt has forsaken that we are thier masters, and now treat us as serfs to fund thier coffers. Our forefathers would be done shooting by now.
User avatar
By Cary
#566171
berzerker wrote:And who will they crush next? Who will be the next example?
Hopefully another stupid twat that wont pay his bills, taxes, and defies court orders in favor of some bullshit self-serving made-up ideology.
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