User avatar
By Plow
#565813
You know, it was never about Bundy. It was always about a government out of control and people getting fed up with the BS. Yeah, he may be an ignorant fuck but in his defense he was probably too busy to keep up with the times.

Texas - Oklahoma border looks like the next battle, BLM wants some land just 'cause. Texas don't roll over for nobody, just like most Americans used to be.
User avatar
By MTgrayling
#565818
Plow wrote:You know, it was never about Bundy. It was always about a government out of control and people getting fed up with the BS.
That's what confused me from the start. It was plainly obvious that it couldn't possibly be about facts or the law.

It still confuses me as to why the BLM rounding up livestock abusing public lands, run by a rancher not paying grazing fees for 20 years and threatening those very BLM agents with violence while not even recognizing the United States as existing is a bad thing.

It's been done before and it seems like it ought to be done far more often. You abuse public lands or your privileges, you lost cows.

NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Sounds senisibly fair to me.


http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ucrk7 ... re-rancher
User avatar
By Plow
#565826
All the government has to do is slap a lean on his land and when the old fart dies (any day now) the government can sell his land and recover cost plus typical government usury interest and penalties. EZPZ.

Why the show of force? Is our government trying to kowtow its people? Government is the servant, not its people. Too may have forgotten that.
User avatar
By Adams
#565829
Better yet, set him him up for civil contempt for violating the court orders to remove the cattle. Let him sit in jail and see if he recognizes the federal government when he is sitting in a federal prison. . .
User avatar
By slavetotheflyrod
#565904
Plow wrote:All the government has to do is slap a lean on his land and when the old fart dies (any day now) the government can sell his land and recover cost plus typical government usury interest and penalties. EZPZ.

Why the show of force? Is our government trying to kowtow its people? Government is the servant, not its people. Too may have forgotten that.
The government does have liens on the cattle which is why they impounded them. I don't believe they have the ability to lien his real estate for the grazing fee debt, but I could be wrong. In any case, it wouldn't matter, because the Bundy place is owner by the Bundy Family Revocable Trust, according to the county recorder, not Cliven Bundy. Odds are that property stays in the family for at least another generation at least so it'd be a long damn time before any lien got settled.

Now, to the heart of the matter:

Bundy has fought his battle in court to it's conclusion and lost every step of the way. He's been given his due process, time and time again, and court after court has found the debt valid. This has gone on for 20 years now and the tab is over a million bucks, so let me ask you Mr. Plow - How long would YOU wait to collect your million bucks and change? And after 20 years of asking nicely could he pretty please pay his grazing fees they finally get around to impounding the cattle - if there's anything about this scenario so far that should upset you it's that they waited so long to impound the beef. As for the show of force - again, what would you do Mr. Plow? This fool owes a million plus dollars, the courts have confirmed that fact, now you have a court order to seize the beef and all of a sudden Mr. Bundy and his ilk are threatening violence and doing so with clear intent and capability. Would you send another letter? Leave him another voice mail?

If it were my money and his cows, he'd be in a hole in the ground and I'd be dining on his beef right about 180 days after he was past due.

And I feel like that's more than fair (to him).

So if we're upset still lets be upset that the BLM has allowed this situation to fester for so long. This should have been dealt with and this money collected and returned to the treasury a long time ago. Whatever happens to Bundy and these feeble minded followers of his is irrelevant.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#565909
[quote]...now you have a court order to seize the beef and all of a sudden Mr. Bundy and his ilk are threatening violence and doing so with clear intent and capability.[/quote]

One point of clarification...while I don't know what kinds of threats were made prior to the arrival of the feds, apparently another effort was made in 2012 that was called off for fear of violence...you are wrong that the feds were met with any resistance initially other than from irate members of the bundy clan themselves...


[quote]Hundreds of federal officers, cowboys and helicopters descended on Cliven Bundy’s backyard Saturday, launching a roundup targeting about 500 head of cattle grazing on government land. Agents started the operation Saturday morning, corralling 75 head of cattle into trailers and taking them south to an undisclosed compound along Interstate 15 just outside of Mesquite, Bundy said. There were no signs of Bundy supporters in the Bunkerville area Saturday, but that doesn’t mean none of them are coming in the days to come.[/quote]

Then video footage of a cancer ridden bundy elder getting shoved to the ground by a fed and a big boy younger getting tazed repeatedly went viral. That is what set off the firestorm.




User avatar
By MTgrayling
#565912
I hadn't seen the video until now. I agree it looks bad.

"Who's the aggressor here?" some aggressive guy keeps shouting.

Why didn't that mouthy cunt in the blue shirt get taser'd, at the very least? superhuman control.

Cliven would have been a bit little smarter trying to make this a religious freedom thing in todays climate.

20 years ago his permits were revoked by the BLM, then 17 years ago the county he lives in bought them. He has no permit, no "right" and hasn't for 2 decades now. This is not disputed.

The National Guard should have been there or nearby on the ready. Bundy had made threats and put out a range war memo. That self serving lawlessness cannot be allowed to stand.

His blog details much of this, albeit from a warped pov.

http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2012/04/ ... z.html?m=1
By gadflyfisher
#565915
Pretty much proves its all hyperbolic bullshit .

I stopped the vid because right off the bat no dog was ever siced on that stupid pregnant cunt.


A small group of law enforcement doing their job against a much larger group confronting them.
They handled themselves much better than was done in the 60s and just a few years ago at UC Davis.

Now back for another giggle.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#565918
gadflyfisher wrote:A small group of law enforcement doing their job against a much larger group confronting them.
They handled themselves much better than was done in the 60s and just a few years ago at UC Davis.
ahem...
Upsetter wrote:Hundreds of federal officers, cowboys and helicopters descended on Cliven Bundy’s backyard Saturday...
Last time I checked, hundreds of federal officers, WITH helicopters, wasn't a small group.

And again, if yall didn't catch my first post in this thread, im no bundy supporter, never was, seems like hes always been in the wrong. The only thing that I threw my hat in the ring to say is: if govco wasn't fucking with all of us every which way, there wouldn't have been a powder keg to blow up in the first place. Nobody would have been ready and waiting to challenge the feds on this stupid issue. And that is why, from my perspective, the issue is larger than the bundy incident, bundy was just a spark. Its part and parcel of why folks have such vitriolic hatred of the ACA, the DEA, HSA, ICE, ad nauseum; just one more layer of govt control horseshit to deal with. Piling more shit on top of shit.
User avatar
By MTgrayling
#565921
A Koch brothers hyped "crisis".



Glenn Beck gets props for not drinking the kochacola and sounding reasonable on this issue.
George Noory can fuck right off for smearing this shit all over Coast to Coast AM.
Hannity was their waterboy/cheerleader/fluffer, apparently.
User avatar
By LTD
#565931
Anyone here ever have to personally deal with the BLM, FS, or the USFWS regarding business on public land? Anyone here ever been a permittee of one of those entities? Just curious.......
User avatar
By Cary
#565949
LTD wrote:Anyone here ever have to personally deal with the BLM, FS, or the USFWS regarding business on public land? Anyone here ever been a permittee of one of those entities? Just curious.......
Yes. Timberland exchanges. And indeed it can be maddening. but to the point you draw a bead on Fed with a semi automatic weapon?
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