something to think about and discuss

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canook
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by canook » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:26 pm

Upsetter wrote:
I still disagree with requiring nics on private sales. I think all private sellers should have the option of requiring nics checks intra- or inter- state. Youd be a fool not to if selling to a stranger. Apparently there are some fools out there.
Are there potential liability issues for selling privately without a nics check if the gun was sold to someone who couldn't legally buy one through retail streams or if it was later used in criminal activity?

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Upsetter
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Upsetter » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:29 am

canook wrote:Are there potential liability issues for selling privately without a nics check if the gun was sold to someone who couldn't legally buy one through retail streams or if it was later used in criminal activity?
Not civil liability to someone who gets robbed or shot, if that is what youre asking, but that doesnt mean you wont have to defend a lawsuit potentially at significant cost. Some states specifically prevent such a lawsuit, like mine, thankfully. But if you are the end of the paper trail on a weapon used to commit a crime, you will have JBTs on your doorstep wanting answers and threatening a search warrant, and unless you can fully document that sale, or have reported it stolen, youre gonna have your life ripped apart, privacy invaded, other possible charges for who knows what depending on the menstrual cycle of the JBTs, and just general shithouse treatment until you are cleared of wrongdoing. I sure as shit want to be able to hand the gestapo a bill of sale with a photocopy of a DL and a buyer sig the moment they show up. May still not keep them from violating my rights and attempting to ruin my life, but its better than nothing. That is why Ive papered all but one sale and one trade ive done thru a dealer and those were to good friends of mine I knew wouldnt sell it without papering the sale. Its standard CYA.

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Muddled Duck
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Muddled Duck » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:27 pm

Since we're linking articles with studies and statistics, here's one with quite a bit of interesting information.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/ ... bout-guns/
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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Upsetter
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Upsetter » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:46 pm

Very notable study...
What needs to be done is a systematic study of many different areas to see whether changes in gun laws cause statistically significant differences in mass shootings. And that type of study is exactly what Bill Landes and I did for all the mass shootings in the US from 1977 to 1999, and we found clear evidence that the only type of gun law that made people safer was one that increased gun ownership.
This study can be downloaded and read in full at this link: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=272929

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canook
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by canook » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:11 pm

The Australian model seems to have been quite effective:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/no-mass-sh ... t-1.614525

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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Muddled Duck » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:42 pm

canook wrote:The Australian model seems to have been quite effective:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/no-mass-sh ... t-1.614525
Awesome. If you cared to read the link I posted you would know that New Zealand can say the same. Considering New Zealand shares similar demographics and holds a pretty well armed populace, do you think there may be more at play here than a gun ban? Please at least read the article I linked and check out a few of the links. I honestly try to do the same when others post links that might conflict with my views.
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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canook
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by canook » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:06 pm

You know what's ironic?

You questioning the credibility of a link and then posting a link to a Faux news story.

That's ironic.

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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Muddled Duck » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:15 pm

Expected you to say that when I posted it. I did have enough respect though to read your link and look up the group behind it. The only data in your link is only verified by the group that professes to be left-leaning. Mine contains links to a variety of sources.
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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canook
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by canook » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:38 pm

Had you really researched or fully read the report referenced in the huffpo story you would seen it has 4.5 PAGES of footnotes of source material. Hardly single-source.

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BigTimber
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by BigTimber » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:44 pm

Upsetter wrote:Very notable study...
What needs to be done is a systematic study of many different areas to see whether changes in gun laws cause statistically significant differences in mass shootings. And that type of study is exactly what Bill Landes and I did for all the mass shootings in the US from 1977 to 1999, and we found clear evidence that the only type of gun law that made people safer was one that increased gun ownership.
This study can be downloaded and read in full at this link: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=272929

Surprised that this is downloadable (even in Austria) for free.

VIII. Conclusion
Right-to-carry laws reduce the number of people killed or wounded from multiple victim public
shootings as many attackers are either deterred from attacking or when attacks do occur they are
stopped before the police can arrive. We are able to provide evidence for the first time that the harm
from crimes that still occur can be mitigated. Given that half the attackers in these multiple victim
public shootings have had formal diagnoses of mental illness, the fact that some results indicate
concealed handgun laws reduce these attacks by almost 70 percent is remarkable.
Differences in state right-to-carry laws are also important: restricting the places where permits
are prohibited increases murders, injuries and shootings; more training requirements reduce
injuries; and higher fees increase injuries and the number of attacks. The much greater deterrence
that right-to-carry laws have for multiple victim public shootings than for other crimes like murder
is consistent with the notion that a higher probability of citizens being able to defend themselves
should produce a greater level of deterrence. The results are robust with respect to different
specifications of the dependent variable, different specifications of the handgun law variable, and
different control variables. Not only does the passage of a right-to-carry law have a significant
impact on multiple shootings but it is the only gun law that appears to have a significant impact.
While other law enforcement efforts -- from the arrest rate for murder and the death penalty --
reduce the number of people harmed from multiple shootings, the effect is not as consistently
significant as for right-to-carry laws. Finally, the data provides no evidence of substitution from
shootings to bombings and little consistent evidence of “copycat” effects.

WORD
This place has enough jiggly milkbags, marsupials fisting off, and animated cherubs getting stabbed in the fuck to get anyone shitcanned, if''n their boss can''t take a joke. ~SUAF

Pussy, much like freedom, ain't free.

America has become a dildo that has turned berserkly on its owner. ~McGuane 1971

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Muddled Duck
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by Muddled Duck » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:40 pm

canook wrote:Had you really researched or fully read the report referenced in the huffpo story you would seen it has 4.5 PAGES of footnotes of source material. Hardly single-source.
I read it to the end, brah. Obviously you didn't bother to even read the main text of mine since you actually promoted the Aussie deal.

Pretty interesting stuff isn't is BT? There's a whole lot at play with both our violent crime and mass shooting issues. For anyone to think guns are THE problem is an overly simplistic view. Violent gun crimes are down, but the newsworthy shootings are still big news even though the U.S. isn't the leader in that sort of crime.
Last edited by Muddled Duck on Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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canook
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Re: something to think about and discuss

Post by canook » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:45 pm

BigTimber wrote:the fact that some results indicate
concealed handgun laws reduce these attacks by almost 70 percent is remarkable.

WORD
'Some results indicate' is now a fact????

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