User avatar
By Plow
#595793
It's a shame the shower wasn't white and the victim black, huh Cliffy. Can't get noooo justice from the left without that.

Anyway, report the mother to the food police for feeding her kids fatty, unhealthy, pizza.
User avatar
By Cary
#595796
Amazing. If some asshole left his loaded gun where a kid could get it, and his kid got it and shot my kid, the last thing he'd have to worry about is the cops.

You guys defending these kooks on the basis of their "Remorse" take the fucking cake. I take solace if the parents are, for the rest of their lives, remorseful. Yes, I like that a lot.

Fuck you if you don't.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#595848
Just out of curiousity Cary...is that how you would feel if your kid broke his neck on a neighbor's trampoline? And it happened while the kids were horsing around unsupervised? Or how about jumping ramps on bikes, skateboards, etc? How about playing down by the creek when its cookin? Or heck, just playing ole unsupervised horsing around out in the street? Any of these activities and a whole lot more could result in a kid getting seriously hurt or killed ACCIDENTALLY.

Its disgusting to me that we are so focused on punishing people for mistakes we all could have just as easily made, to the point of ruining their lives over it. I would agree with you though in your hope that they would hold onto remorse and guilt for a hell of long time AND learn from their mistake and never let it happen again. But Im still stuck on how ruining their lives with criminal convictions is gonna positively affect that.
User avatar
By Da Ax
#595868
I dunno. Someone said it earlier, owning a gun (or a car or a bow or a knife or anything else that can cause harm) comes with great responsibility. Just because you can doesn't mean you should (something I tell my kids).

I just cannot sit with "Hey, you barely have the common sense to breath, so let's punish you to pieces." Making laws to save us from ourselves are necessary in some instances, but not all instances. Some people get all upset when some can look at it from a distance and say, "Hey, they were dumbasses. Takes them outta the gene pool, I guess." Not that I don't have some sort of feelings for people, I really do. But you just can't fix stupid. Ignorance can be fixed, but only if the ignorant wants to be fixed. Frigging stop coddling people, quit making an issue out of everything all in the name of "awareness". If you're not aware to begin with or don't endeavor enough to make yourself aware, you deserve what you get...the oldest story in the book.

What happened was tragic, no doubt. But, anytime a gun is involved, it's plastered all over everything. Would this be national news if the kid lit a firework somehow and gave it to his brother who blew his hand off? Who knows? I suppose I'm just not passionate about the subject one way or the other to get all fired up about it. Yes, the inevitable question is: "What if it was YOUR kids, or your neighbor's kid who shot your kid, blah, blah, blah...?" I was taught (and teach) better than leaving a gun out or around for a kid to fool with. If it did happen to me, it'd be my fault either way.

Your response to that might be "Well, good for you (or Fuck You, whichever). Perhaps they didn't know and this happened." Shit, that's life. You learn by making mistakes (hopefully that won't kill you or someone else) or by learning from others. There is no other way around it. Laws won't really assist in that.
User avatar
By yard4sale
#595870
Christ on a cracker. Why do gun advocates turn off their common sense when it comes to this shit?

100% easily avoidable. Trigger lock or gun safe. 10x if you have kids in the house.

Why is that so difficult?
User avatar
By Upsetter
#595874
yard4sale wrote:100% easily avoidable. Trigger lock or gun safe. 10x if you have kids in the house.

Why is that so difficult?
Never said it wasnt. Agree fully. But shit happens. And I dont think it helps any to turn these parents into criminals. Nor do I think it helps when people sue one another when their kids are over playing at anothers house and get hurt. The control freaks have way to much influence in our society and Im sick of it. A lot of our bullshit laws exist solely to pander to their demands cause someone got hurt doing something somewhere somehow. I will advocate chipping away at their influence every chance I get. This is my primary point in this thread...
Da Ax wrote:You learn by making mistakes (hopefully that won't kill you or someone else) or by learning from others. There is no other way around it. Laws won't really assist in that.
Not that people shouldnt bother taking basic firearms safety precautions. And I would also echo this...
Da Ax wrote:Would this be national news if the kid lit a firework somehow and gave it to his brother who blew his hand off? Who knows?
As it gets to the heart of the anti-gun advocates' desire to blow any tragedy way out of proportion if it involves a firearm versus any other implement that could result in the same: a kitchen knife, or a lawnmower, a baseball bat, a car, fireworks. I would go way beyond that with respect to "risky" activities we all partake in. The vast majority of the time they do not result in any harm to anyone. When they do result in tragedy, we should not turn those unfortunate souls into criminals. I keep waiting for the day I get charged with reckless endangerment (a felony if cliff gets his way) for attempting to climb a mountain...cause dammit, that shits dangerous!!!
User avatar
By Da Ax
#595886
Upsetter wrote:for attempting to climb a mountain...cause dammit, that shits dangerous!!!
I agree in part. I wouldn't have you arrested for climbing a mountain because it's dangerous. However, if you KNEW it would be somewhat hazardous then decided to do it anyway because, well, it had to be done, I take issue with risking other's lives to rescue your (or anyone else's) dumb ass because they went up there, got hurt/lost when you knew this would happen. OK, perhaps not arrested, but restitution would be involved. After all, man hours are man hours, rescue or not. Ass, grass or cash and all that.
User avatar
By Da Ax
#595888
Upsetter wrote:
Da Ax wrote:You learn by making mistakes (hopefully that won't kill you or someone else) or by learning from others. There is no other way around it. Laws won't really assist in that.
Not that people shouldnt bother taking basic firearms safety precautions. And I would also echo this...
Comes under the heading (as broad as it is) of "learning from others". I stand by my statement.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#595925
Da Ax wrote:...but restitution would be involved. After all, man hours are man hours, rescue or not. Ass, grass or cash and all that.
Already the case in most situations. When I used to really put the pedal to the metal, I would buy rescue insurance from the american alpine club for each endeavor. Cost less than $100/wk for members and covered up to 10k in rescue services. Ive also been involved in a bunch of hairball self rescues. I dont shut down when shit goes wrong. I adjust and overcome. Getting everyone out safe becomes the challenge instead of whatever goal we set out to do at first.
User avatar
By Da Ax
#595929
Upsetter wrote:
Da Ax wrote:...but restitution would be involved. After all, man hours are man hours, rescue or not. Ass, grass or cash and all that.
Already the case in most situations. When I used to really put the pedal to the metal, I would buy rescue insurance from the american alpine club for each endeavor. Cost less than $100/wk for members and covered up to 10k in rescue services. Ive also been involved in a bunch of hairball self rescues. I dont shut down when shit goes wrong. I adjust and overcome. Getting everyone out safe becomes the challenge instead of whatever goal we set out to do at first.
Ya see, this is why I respect ya, Up. Don't sit down and cry when crap goes bad, do something. Assess the situation, plan a course of action and move out.

This is not to say that I don't respect others on the The Suk, but I agree with ya.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#595980
Looks like Im not the only one who thinks our police state is completely out of control. How bout this for an unthinkable alliance: Charles Koch, George Soros, Corey Booker, and Rand Paul all going after significant criminal justice reform.
But Charles Koch isn’t the only one who has woken up to America’s self-perpetuating, out-of-control criminal justice system—a reminder of how far the best-intentioned government programs can, when left unchecked, do as much harm as good. And so this very rich right-winger has found himself fighting alongside the likes of Booker and Soros—even as Soros and the Kochs separately prepare to spend millions of dollars opposing each other in next year’s presidential race. Indeed, an increasingly loud clamor of activists from both the left and right, from city halls to Capitol Hill, lawmakers to lawyers, are taking aim at what both sides now term “over-incarceration” and the general unforgivingness of America’s justice system. “The use of the criminal law to solve problems has just gone too far,” says Chris Stone, president of George Soros’ Open Society Foundations. “This is not about the libertarian right or the left. It’s about common sense.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... z3Tcjgndbv
User avatar
By yard4sale
#595995
A police state would be them busting down your door to check if you have any guns out. I'm sure you think thats coming though....

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