Beautiful Anarchy

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cantfishforshit.
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by cantfishforshit. » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:19 am

If Irán et al have changed, it isnt by much.
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BigCliff
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by BigCliff » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:55 pm

I'm all for the GOP going the more libertarian route instead of the zenophobic theocrat imperialist track its been on for the past ten years.

Y'all may be shocked to hear it, but I wish the GOP was a powerful force for reasonable libertarianism. Instead, its a cranky reactionary rump fading in relevance as its base becomes increasingly dead or senile.

That said, Rand lost me with this- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /22821023/
Buy better hooks and bourbon.

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Upsetter
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by Upsetter » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:13 pm

ChaseChrome wrote:I'll have more for you later...you have to learn to better manage your disappointments and anger man.
Furthermore, for your information...my statement is inductive logic as opposed to deductive (which seats itself quite comfortably in the realm of a generalization which is how I meant for it to be read)...
I cant wait. :coffee

Im not disappointed in the least, life has been very kind to me. I am prepared though, so there is that. Those who think consequentially tend not to be disappointed. My anger is at watching our country become like the rest of the first world: cowtowed; pacified; metro-pussies - instead of the beacon of light for individual freedom it should be - the kind of freedom we here on this board revel in every day.

Maybe Ive lived in the west for too long (the land of the rugged individual, and many are exactly that), getting close to half my life, but fuck all them pussies. And I am willing to fight about it...not you personally of course, Ive heard from good people that youre a real nice guy when politics or gun control dont come up. :cool

Re: logic - your equivocating...the end result is the same, whether you get there thru inductive or deductive reasoning, the simple conclusion from your first post was you dont think much of libertarian ideas or those who espouse them...except maybe some similarly equivocating, overly-analytical academics who think way to much about it. If that isnt what you meant, maybe you should backtrack it?

Embracing individual autonomy is really a simple concept if you let it be, only caveat being your rights end where mine begin, then the heavy lifting begins from a rule-making perspective. The big shift I want to see is for freedom to be the default unless we have truly compelling reasons to take it away. I dont think that is the case anymore. Every fucking danger and/or tragic event in the world, no matter how remote, is reason enough to take more and more freedom away these days. A federal govt truly constrained by that premise wouldnt be 20 trillion dollars in debt.

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VTNZ
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by VTNZ » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:02 pm

Oh man Plow...

Congrats on using the color red....

....but it doesn't separate the reality: which is what you've chosen to highlight is 100% spot on (and once again, if you disagree, show me how and why)...in fact your next Golden Child, "Tehran Tom Cotton", just said 'Merica doesn't mind war....just so long as we win!

Win like....Korea? Vietnam? Afghan? Iraq? Gotcha...duly noted. Winners? MIC, those in the bowels of DC as this article asserts,etc. Losers? Americans lives, families effected, those who value their personal freedoms, and those who yearn for a smaller more accountable govt. The Pentagon wants a 14% increase in their budget....again. Any of you out there getting a 14% raise this year? No, in fact you'll be paying to pay for theirs. Not even close to a libertarian mindset fwiw...

Of course they're buzzwords to you....but the fact you choose to not answer my simple question and articulate how Iran has changed from 2007 to now is so much more telling than your ability to highlight in red the points/assertions I've made and will continue to stand by, as those assertions are proven right day after day by the actions and words of your party, and the CBO and Defense Dept reports on the F-35,etc.
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befuddled
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by befuddled » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:40 pm

So, first of all, I'll admit I read the initial post but not the responses. I realize that is neglecting the conversation, but that is where this particular response is coming from...forgive me if it's been covered already.

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There is another, very big, factor in putting your eggs in one executive basket. Our system was not designed to move swiftly. Broad changes in short periods of time simply were not built into our "Republic". If it took 50-100 years for us to get to this point, we're not changing it all in 4 years just because we vote in one visionary leader that a certain percentage of people. Large, swift changes are the within of scope of revolution in this country. Nothing less. Just my opinion.

Also, this country has always had a ruling class. In fact the original class of politicians didn't even want the minuscule amount of influence we have. They believed that when people got elected, they should be free to govern without the influence of the people's wants. If that way of thinking persists, and I believe it does, then the folks in Washington, even in our state capitals, believe when they come to office that they should decide for us what's in our best interest. There may, or may not, have been a time when the lay people actually wanted that because they didn't want to have to deal with the stuff their elected leaders were given the job to deal with. I think we have moved past that. And I think we are getting pissed off about them not coming around to listening to the populace.
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Bobwhite
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by Bobwhite » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:04 am

BigCliff wrote:I'm all for the GOP going the more libertarian route instead of the zenophobic theocrat imperialist track its been on for the past ten years.

Y'all may be shocked to hear it, but I wish the GOP was a powerful force for reasonable libertarianism. Instead, its a cranky reactionary rump fading in relevance as its base becomes increasingly dead or senile.

That said, Rand lost me with this- http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /22821023/
Cliff, I also wish the GOP had more of a Libertarian leaning, and less of the intolerance I've watched spread through it's ranks over the past decade. In a very real sense, I feel that the GOP has been high-jacked, leaving me (and many others) without a party or candidates that represents my views.

That said, even though Rand may have dropped the ball with the vaccination comments, I feel more closely aligned with (many) of his views than any other presidential candidate.

If things don't work out... you'll find me painting and guiding in Liberland. Stop by and visit...

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Bobwhite
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by Bobwhite » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:04 am

befuddled wrote: There may, or may not, have been a time when the lay people actually wanted that because they didn't want to have to deal with the stuff their elected leaders were given the job to deal with. I think we have moved past that. And I think we are getting pissed off about them not coming around to listening to the populace.
Interesting point of view... along this line of thinking, what we're experiencing is a natural evolution of our society and politics.

I suppose, like any natural evolutionary change, the organism (politics) will only change to the degree that the environment (the populace) demands.

I hadn't thought of it this way. Thank you.
"Why in the fuck did I miss this place? It's like missing a raging case of the clap."

"Make it matter, fuckos." jhnnythndr

" Herre jävlar vilka fiskar!!" P-A

"I'm no saint though, nor a judge. Rock that shit good and hard, and on your way out, wipe your dick on the curtains." - Kyner

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peetso
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by peetso » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:34 pm

Can someone explain to me libertarian views on public lands?
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Upsetter
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by Upsetter » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:25 pm

Ahhh shit...you canucks like to wade into the deep end dont ya?

As with every other issue, the libertarian response varies. Take PERC for example. My ideological neighbors so to speak. Their perspective speaks for itself and I totally disagree. But then, Im a personally responsible libertarian who thinks people can look after commonly held property with just as much love and respect as that which a person privately owns.

It is part of montana's history to cherish our publicly owned lands and waters. Its why, even though the various clerk and recorder offices forgot to siphon off river bottoms when recording patents 100+yrs ago, easements in the public interest were prescriptively created over the decades, and subsequently recognized by our SCt and legislature.

Folks did what they did to survive, put food on the table. If there is anything more grounded in the libertarian ethos, I dont know what that is. To preserve that heritage and protect it from selfish assholes who think, just cause they have the money to drown us all out, they can, is to protect the individual liberty of all us working stiff montanans from usurpation by those who would do so if they could.

IMO, that is, again, a legitimate purpose for govt's coercive power: to protect the rights of those who cannot, except at great expense (now would be a great time to conisder a donation to MT PLWA), from those who have the power to run roughshod over them.

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BigCliff
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by BigCliff » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:36 am

peetso wrote:Can someone explain to me libertarian views on public lands?
Short version- there's no such thing
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Upsetter
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by Upsetter » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:26 pm

That is the PERC perspective. Another libertarian perspective is found in the life and teachings of Henry David Thoreau.

"In wilderness is the preservation of the world."

"That government is best which governs least."

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cantfishforshit.
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Re: Beautiful Anarchy

Post by cantfishforshit. » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:22 pm

peetso wrote:Can someone explain to me libertarian views on public lands?

From what i can tell they want to sell a lot or most of it because they think the the free market will better a better system to keep it and care for it. The problem is: I don't have a few million to buy a piece. Once it's gone, it's gone.
“I am a fisherman. The work is simple, as is my life. Still, I take pride in my work because on these waters, I may think, and reason not to."

-Hindu Fisherman

"Do you remember, Odin, when in bygone days we mixed our blood together? You said you would never drink ale unless it were brought to both of us?" -Njal

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