I heard that some people got shot

User avatar
Upsetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by Upsetter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:42 pm

Here is a list of some shooting incidents stopped by civi's with ccw's or a gun in close proximity:
1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit “shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people.”

2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards “opened fire on customers and barbers” after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course it’s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn’t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, “I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there.”

3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom we was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it’s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, “If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he’d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead”; Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux similar said that he “believe[d] the doctor saved lives.” Plotts was still carrying 39 unspent rounds when he was arrested. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. “The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.

5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it’s possible that the criminal wasn’t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.

6. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

7. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have (UPDATE: he apparently went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition).

8. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

9. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... 3917104644

User avatar
Upsetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by Upsetter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:46 pm

And then there is the uber driver, in chitown no less, who smoked a shooter in the midst of a spree...

http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-dri ... ago-2015-4

User avatar
ChaseChrome
Posts: 2821
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:09 pm
Location: Inside the black, shiny eye of the ant...bish

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by ChaseChrome » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:25 pm

Awesome...

Cary...golden
All thinking men are atheists...E. Hemingway

Sometimes hipness is what it ain't...Tower of P

Apparently they believe that putting a see through skirt on a word makes it OK...Average Joe

User avatar
Bobwhite
Posts: 5010
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 4:48 pm
Location: Marine on St. Croix, MN
Contact:

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by Bobwhite » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:36 pm

I can't help but think that even shots in the air would put a rampage killer in a defensive posture, possibly force him to take cover, and in doing so, allow potential victims time to escape, while giving trained LEO's preciously needed time.

Collateral damage is always a possibility, but my bet is that if any of the survivors were asked, they'd have welcomed even untrained help.
"Why in the fuck did I miss this place? It's like missing a raging case of the clap."

"Make it matter, fuckos." jhnnythndr

" Herre jävlar vilka fiskar!!" P-A

"I'm no saint though, nor a judge. Rock that shit good and hard, and on your way out, wipe your dick on the curtains." - Kyner

User avatar
VTNZ
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: 45North and 45South

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by VTNZ » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:41 pm

Upsetter wrote:
VTNZ wrote:Awesome, following that line of thinking,let's do away with the need for drivers licenses....cuz the drunks on suspended licenses don't care for the laws and magic lines in the middle of the road...so why should I need a drivers license; or a road worthy, rego'd car?
Thats a good question vt. Why should you? So the jbts can know as much about you as quickly as possible when they decide to try and ruin your day. For their edification, you know. That's why. And just how much of that big brother bullshit are we supposed to abide? I say not one bit more and we should take back as many of our freedoms as we can. He who surrenders liberty for security deserves neither, yada yada yada.

Aaaaand there's the Fear driven society I was eluding too....
People are assholes because half the people around are of below average intelligence - Shunned

I hope I didn't infer that I was antifingerbanging. Its an art I hold dear. - RT

User avatar
VTNZ
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: 45North and 45South

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by VTNZ » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:42 pm

Upsetter wrote:Here is a list of some shooting incidents stopped by civi's with ccw's or a gun in close proximity:
1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit “shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people.”

2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards “opened fire on customers and barbers” after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course it’s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn’t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, “I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there.”

3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom we was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it’s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, “If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he’d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead”; Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux similar said that he “believe[d] the doctor saved lives.” Plotts was still carrying 39 unspent rounds when he was arrested. [UPDATE: I added this item since the original post.]

4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. “The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.

5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it’s possible that the criminal wasn’t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.

6. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

7. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have (UPDATE: he apparently went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition).

8. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

9. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... 3917104644

Lol....you wouldn't mind posting the 2 paragraphs that came before the list of "might haves,could haves, mayhaps's"....to give maybe a little context?
People are assholes because half the people around are of below average intelligence - Shunned

I hope I didn't infer that I was antifingerbanging. Its an art I hold dear. - RT

User avatar
VTNZ
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: 45North and 45South

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by VTNZ » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:45 pm

Bobwhite wrote:I can't help but think that even shots in the air would put a rampage killer in a defensive posture, possibly force him to take cover, and in doing so, allow potential victims time to escape, while giving trained LEO's preciously needed time.

Collateral damage is always a possibility, but my bet is that if any of the survivors were asked, they'd have welcomed even untrained help.

Hope I'm not on the 2nd floor when you go John Wayne.

And it's gonna be awfully tough to ask the folks you killed in collateral damage if they welcomed your help...jus sayin.
People are assholes because half the people around are of below average intelligence - Shunned

I hope I didn't infer that I was antifingerbanging. Its an art I hold dear. - RT

User avatar
Upsetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by Upsetter » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:15 pm

VTNZ wrote:Aaaaand there's the Fear driven society I was eluding too....
Aaaaaannd wtf exactly are you advocating for if not a fear driven society? Youre just scared of some pissant little shit with pistol and rifle in hand, whereas Im wary and distrustful (not scared, there's a difference) of the biggest, most powerful, leviathan of a govt this world has ever seen. See the difference?

Im willing to challenge and fight big brother, not give him another inch, cause that isnt what this country is about. Youre scared and want to hand over your freedom to big brother in hopes that he will prevent the next tragedy, whatever that tragedy might be. Youre gonna have to give up a hell of alot of freedom before big brother prevents a damn thing.

Why do you think they are fighting so hard for that data/phone call mining program? Once they have it, it will only expand, and it will become the closest thing to "pre-crime" the world has seen yet. The fbi guy in adams article said they dont mine the internet looking for these kids and have to rely on concerned people ratting them out (thank God for the few constitutional protections we have left!!!). Do you think he really wants to have his hands tied like that?

Perhaps you should sign over those freedoms too, you know, in the name of preventing the next "tragedy". Shit, Ill probably have jbts knocking on my door in no time after the internet police hit the beat. :gun

User avatar
VTNZ
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: 45North and 45South

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by VTNZ » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Upsetter wrote:
VTNZ wrote:Aaaaand there's the Fear driven society I was eluding too....
Aaaaaannd wtf exactly are you advocating for if not a fear driven society? Youre just scared of some pissant little shit with pistol and rifle in hand, whereas Im wary and distrustful (not scared, there's a difference) of the biggest, most powerful, leviathan of a govt this world has ever seen. See the difference?

Im willing to challenge and fight big brother, not give him another inch, cause that isnt what this country is about. Youre scared and want to hand over your freedom to big brother in hopes that he will prevent the next tragedy, whatever that tragedy might be. Youre gonna have to give up a hell of alot of freedom before big brother prevents a damn thing.

Why do you think they are fighting so hard for that data/phone call mining program? Once they have it, it will only expand, and it will become the closest thing to "pre-crime" the world has seen yet. The fbi guy in adams article said they dont mine the internet looking for these kids and have to rely on concerned people ratting them out (thank God for the few constitutional protections we have left!!!). Do you think he really wants to have his hands tied like that?

Perhaps you should sign over those freedoms too, you know, in the name of preventing the next "tragedy". Shit, Ill probably have jbts knocking on my door in no time after the internet police hit the beat. :gun
Lol...ok dude...I'll just let this post prove my point. The "people" created the govt we distrust...along with lobbyists and lawyers of course. Sleep well, the mental fatigue has to be stifling thinking like that 25/8/465....
People are assholes because half the people around are of below average intelligence - Shunned

I hope I didn't infer that I was antifingerbanging. Its an art I hold dear. - RT

User avatar
Spudnik
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:34 am

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by Spudnik » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:03 pm

I can't figure out why an ex-pat is even commenting on this stuff.
"Do you think it is real? I bet it is hard and soft, like hard muscle but really smooth skin. I bet it is real nice." - midstream

User avatar
VTNZ
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: 45North and 45South

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by VTNZ » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:34 pm

Cuz I still have friends and family I care about in the states fuckwit...
People are assholes because half the people around are of below average intelligence - Shunned

I hope I didn't infer that I was antifingerbanging. Its an art I hold dear. - RT

User avatar
SLSS
Posts: 6890
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:24 pm
Location: Home
Contact:

Re: I heard that some people got shot

Post by SLSS » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:18 am

It's lime the battles between sperm whales and giant squid half a mile below the surface of the ocean. Only it happens in the palm I your hand.- thndr

when I fall, I am still cold and wet, but much more stylishly dressed. as my hat disappears in the riffle- flybug.pa


"Sugar? No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Redchaser and 61 guests