Troubled and conflicetd.

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Redchaser
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Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Redchaser » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:01 am

I consider myself to be a pretty fervent believer in our constitution as well as in our country's rich tradition of offering a place for the "tired, the poor, and the huddled masses". Both as an American and as a Christian I feel that we should offer a place to those wishing to enter our country through legal means. I am however conflicted over the planned immigration of many thousands of Syrian refugees. I want us to be the nation that we are supposed to be, the "Shining city on a hill" that others can come to for refuge and to prosper, but is there a point where allowing or encouraging this becomes stupid? I'm not asking this rhetorically because I really haven't resolved where I sit with this and am conflicted. What do you guys think?
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by peetso » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:24 pm

Redchaser wrote:. I want us to be the nation that we are supposed to be, the "Shining city on a hill" that others can come to for refuge and to prosper, but is there a point where allowing or encouraging this becomes stupid?
No.
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MTgrayling
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by MTgrayling » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:04 pm

They're trying to feed you poison man.

Don't eat the FEAR
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VTNZ
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by VTNZ » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:06 pm

There are tolerant Christians, and not so tolerant Christians (see Kim Davis, or any of the R Prez candidates)...

There are tolerant muslims, and not so tolerant muslims....

If you don't like it when folks clump you in with the intolerant Christians, than how do you think tolerant muslims feel right now? And they often can't hide their tan, so are subject to the same pre-bias as blacks, latinos, etc. on top of it.

Extremism and fundamentalism come in all flavors and colors...the US "used" to be a country that rose above all that as you elude to. Not so sure anymore.

Or....just look at what and how Aaron Rodgers, a practicing Christian, came out and lambasted the pos that yelled "muslims suck" during a moment of silence before the packer game. That, is what we need more of out of the Christian community in the US....not what we see from the war profiting extremists running for Prez,etc.

And just a friendly reminder now that the US MIC and war profiting media are beating the drums....here are some facts:

We have an ocean separating us from Europe/Africa

Less than 2% of the refugees looking to come here are in the age, background (served in military), male,etc. that fit the "potential" for a sketchy guy....most are moms with kids, grandparents, etc. And you can bet your ass those cats will be scrutinized to the hilt.

R govs, who claim the constitution all the time when it suits them, have no power to say no; it's a federal matter.

All of the known asshats in France were EUROPEANS. None, and I stress thus far, came from the group of Syrian refugees. Otherwise it's kinda like blaming Ireland for Timothy Mcveigh...

For every muslim extremist, there's a christian one, history has shown that time and time and time again. Methods may be different, but the net result is always the same,whether it's one killed,or hundreds, or thousands,etc.

The cure? Well, in terms of your question directly, likely a combination of tolerance and understanding and a bit more cowbell...

But be realistic....more folks will die of car accidents in France than terror even this year, don't let the media drive the fear and paranoia into you. :cool
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by yard4sale » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:17 pm

I'm all for legal immigration. Gives us a chance to regulate and do checks. If your legit you get in. Fair enough.

But I'm also for much more strict illegal immigration policy. No, I'm not talking fences or any of that crap. I am talking about better enforcement of the laws we do have and getting illegal immigrants, especially those who commit crimes, out of here. The case of the news reporter who got shot in SF a few months back comes to mind. The guy was illegal, had committed crimes, and was still here. They even released him from jail because the sheriffs office didn't want to deal with him until immigration could. THAT needs to stop.

Or we can recreate Miami in the early 80s...
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by canook » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:37 pm

Fear is ISIL's strongest weapon. Don't drink that koolaid. This is worth five minutes of your time:
http://www.someecards.com/entertainment ... -aly-isis/

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Adams
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Adams » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:38 pm

Why NOT let them in?

The fact that Daesh planted one terrorasshole in Paris thru Syria?
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by MTgrayling » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:49 pm

Adams wrote:Why NOT let them in?

The fact that Daesh planted one terrorasshole in Paris thru Syria?
Source?
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by austrotard » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:02 pm

Redchaser wrote: as an American and as a Christian...
I fail to see how this has anything to do with anything.

what does 'an american' mean? I know what 'as a christian' normally means... it's a buffer warning to exclaim something sanctimonious.

so here's your dilemma... as a christian you should have a never-ending extension of welcoming. and there's no two ways about this, agreed?

and as an american... well again, that means nothing in the big scheme of things.
you lot are divided straight down the guts on most issues.
the fact is (from what I can see,) is that you don't want them there. and that's fair enough. that's the way you feel... though it may not hold much water when the actual decision is made.

so now what does that make you?
a bad christian or a bad american?

I'm sorry but the whole religion nonsense can go fuck itself in the ass some more.
because if it wasn't for your 110% correct religion over mahmoot's incorrect one we wouldn't be contemplating on where to send these displaced people in the fucking first place.



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brent_e
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by brent_e » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:20 pm

If you get people out of Syria and accept them then ISIS will run out of people to ruin, rape, etc. let them have at it on their own.
if you get people out of Syria and treat them like garbage (i.e., burn a mosque: Peterborough, Ontario; punch a woman wearing a hijab in the face: Toronto) not only are you a racist POS but you're also doing exactly what ISIS (canook's link) wants. The difference is the extremest you are creating are in your backyard.

It would be interesting to see some numbers (not to say that all people are is numbers…i'm not an economist) regarding the costs of immigration such as this. i.e., what knowledge and skills are brought in vs how many people need social assistance.
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Adams
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Adams » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:28 pm

MTgrayling wrote:
Adams wrote:Why NOT let them in?

The fact that Daesh planted one terrorasshole in Paris thru Syria?
Source?
None - it's a trap. (Sorry, on the phone so can't insert General Guppie Face from Star Wars)

Conflicting reports that passport found on scene showed Syrian immigrant that came thru Greece. Some reports claim passport faked and probably part of Daesh effort to turn the West against those fleeing the Syrian shitstorm.

Neither would stop me from accepting refugees fleeing the maelstrom.
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Da Ax
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Da Ax » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:35 pm

I'm kinda on the fence about it, also. I guess it boils down to this: if we do offer shelter to the tired, the poor, the huddle masses, we have to be prepared for what that entails. It's a brave new world...and getting smaller by the day.

But, I am all for streamlining the process to allow immigrants to be citizens. I don't buy waving the magic wand and *poof*, your a citizen. There are thousands who undertook the journey to become citizens and their effort should not have been in vain.
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