Electoral College

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yard4sale
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Electoral College

Post by yard4sale » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:23 pm

Why?
How do we get rid of it?

As our population shifts from rural to metro/suburban areas it seems like the EC fails to represent the people more and more. Why is one persons vote worth more than another's?
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VTNZ
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Re: Electoral College

Post by VTNZ » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:56 pm

great question.

The answer seems to be it keeps the angry white guys in power...therefore, it ain't going anywhere.
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Re: Electoral College

Post by Redchaser » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:15 pm

yard4sale wrote:Why?
How do we get rid of it?

As our population shifts from rural to metro/suburban areas it seems like the EC fails to represent the people more and more. Why is one persons vote worth more than another's?
It would take a constitutional amendment, which basically has to start in Congress. I don't think you'd get much resistance from the general population.
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Re: Electoral College

Post by fly-chucker » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:33 pm

Redchaser wrote:
yard4sale wrote:Why?
How do we get rid of it?

As our population shifts from rural to metro/suburban areas it seems like the EC fails to represent the people more and more. Why is one persons vote worth more than another's?
It would take a constitutional amendment, which basically has to start in Congress. I don't think you'd get much resistance from the general population.

the states could do it by themselves, but it ain't going happen :bomb
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Re: Electoral College

Post by MTgrayling » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:57 pm



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Jon
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Re: Electoral College

Post by Jon » Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:47 am

A Republican Congress isn't about to overturn a system where their boy lost the popular vote yet won the electoral contest in two of the last five elections.

However, there is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their states. Only 25 states require electors to cast their votes according to the popular vote. So technically when they cast their votes on Dec 19 some of them could vote contrary to their pledge. If enough Trump electors change their vote to Clinton she could be Prez.

This will not happen of course.
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Re: Electoral College

Post by befuddled » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:33 am

yard4sale wrote:Why?
How do we get rid of it?

As our population shifts from rural to metro/suburban areas it seems like the EC fails to represent the people more and more. Why is one persons vote worth more than another's?
Very very dangerous in my opinion. We already have a lack of true appreciation of our natural resources as fewer and fewer people spend enough time in them to truly appreciate their value.

When cities dictate the vote and the rural are completely disenfranchised the idea that "ah, it doesn't do anything for us, might as well develop it and make it useful" gets more and more feasible
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Re: Electoral College

Post by B.M. Barrelcooker » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:11 am

befuddled wrote:
yard4sale wrote:Why?
How do we get rid of it?

As our population shifts from rural to metro/suburban areas it seems like the EC fails to represent the people more and more. Why is one persons vote worth more than another's?
Very very dangerous in my opinion. We already have a lack of true appreciation of our natural resources as fewer and fewer people spend enough time in them to truly appreciate their value.

When cities dictate the vote and the rural are completely disenfranchised the idea that "ah, it doesn't do anything for us, might as well develop it and make it useful" gets more and more feasible

That is very good insight.

I believe that's kind of what the founders were thinking even if the scales were tipped the other way in those days.


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yard4sale
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Re: Electoral College

Post by yard4sale » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:30 am

Wait, are you saying that the rural people are more likely to preserve our resources than urban folks?

Yeah, I'm sure the Bundy's and their like are fighting to turn federal land into state managed so that they can do a better job of protecting it. And I'm sure its mostly urbanites complaining about the lack of logging jobs. And mining jobs. And drilling jobs. And cattle ranges.

228-290. It wasn't even close. That's a major disparity between the popular vote and the EC.
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Re: Electoral College

Post by befuddled » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:03 pm

yard4sale wrote:Wait, are you saying that the rural people are more likely to preserve our resources than urban folks?
I guess I kinda did say that but that actually is not exactly what I intended to say. Your example on top of the fact that the more conservative rural areas tend to increasingly vote for politicians willing to privatize/sell off/develop the resources, and I definitely get your point.

I guess my point is more about math and the observation of the last 50 years where lots of things happened the voting population probably never intended but didn't follow it or appreciate the consequences enough to even try to stop it:

the more concentrated the population X the fewer people who have an appreciation of what gets lost = easier to lose it by the votes of folks who wouldn't necessarily be in favor of raping the land but just don't appreciate it enough for it to be a major voting point for them.

(Although, if the opposite could certainly be true as well where the urbanites actually end up being the ones to save the resource)
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Da Ax
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Re: Electoral College

Post by Da Ax » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:51 pm

I'm not a political scientist, and my understanding of the situation may be skewed (more often than not, according to the wife), but the electoral votes even things out a bit. If it was simply a popular vote, candidates would only campaign in large cities where there is a population density. The rural vote would mean little.

As quaint or flawed as some may think it is, it was designed so that everyone's voice was to be heard. Not just populations centers.
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Re: Electoral College

Post by BigCliff » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:23 pm

Da Ax wrote:As quaint or flawed as some may think it is, it was designed so that everyone's voice was to be heard. Not just populations centers.
Problem is: any system that doesn't base the election on the popular vote is inherently stating that some people's opinions are more valuable than others.

If a "population center" holds more sway in determining an election's result, so what? Do we want a system where a larger proportion of dirt voting a given way is more important than how the total proportion of humans vote?

Why/how is that justified?
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