H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

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fallen513
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by fallen513 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:13 am

That's kinda what I thought to be true. It sounds good but doesn't do what it says it will do. Dicks.
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D-nymph
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by D-nymph » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:27 am

Transylwader wrote:The EPA is fucking pathetic. Those assholes are unregulated and are the proverbial Golden child in the enviro reg world. Amazing how quickly the Animas orange up has been forgotten, how about the Dan River Duke fuckshow coal ash spill that STILL hasn't been corrected? In my line of work, they are a calamity, I have seen municipalities toil with them over land disturbance permits, passing the buck on inspecting riparian buffer zones because who cares about a fish kill? So the dealership can pave another 10 football fields and nor even have the decency to put up silt fencing snd have detention ponds and check dams to filter fucking PCBs? 90% of these bureacrats are high school GEDs with fuckall college education. They are not there to protect the environment. They are another govt agency making money from big corporations who have them in their back pocket.
Fuck 'em and feed em pellets :gun
Your saffa sensibilities are all twisted up in this post.

The EPA does not handle land disturbance permitting for developers. In PA it's the Department of Environmental Protection (PADEP) a state agency, not the Federal EPA. The EPA is only involved in projects that require federal permitting, a car dealership or housing development do not need federal permits. A dam or new factory discharging onto a river bank that contains dams which are owned/operated by the Army Corps of Engineers do need federal permits.

In PA, Land disturbance & Storm water Management is overseen by county agencies called County Conservation Districts, not the EPA. I don't think it's any different in NC where you have the state agency called the NC Department of Environmental Quality (NCDEQ) and County soil & water conservation districts.

Sometimes the EPA is involved with cleanups like the ones you mentioned & sometimes it's up to the states depending on a lot of factors.
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Willi
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by Willi » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:50 am

I'm old enough to remember the days before the Clean Water/Air Acts. The air in our major cities rivaled that in China's cities today. Many of our streams, rivers and lakes were sewers. Lake Erie was essentially dead and the other Great Lakes were following. A major river was so polluted it actually caught fire. The creeks where I grew up had piles of foam higher than my head floating down and were so polluted that even carp couldn't live in them. Now they hold gamefish. Today the Great Lakes are excellent fisheries, there are many thousands more miles of streams and rivers that support gamefish, our air is breathable etc etc etc The EPA isn't perfect, but it sure is better than corporate self regulation.

Willi

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fallen513
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by fallen513 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:00 am

I can get behind that.
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Transylwader
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by Transylwader » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:08 am

D-nymph wrote:
Transylwader wrote:
The EPA does not handle land disturbance permitting for developers. In PA it's the Department of Environmental Protection (PADEP) a state agency, not the Federal EPA. The EPA is only involved in projects that require federal permitting, a car dealership or housing development do not need federal permits. A dam or new factory discharging onto a river bank that contains dams which are owned/operated by the Army Corps of Engineers do need federal permits.

In PA, Land disturbance & Storm water Management is overseen by county agencies called County Conservation Districts, not the EPA. I don't think it's any different in NC where you have the state agency called the NC Department of Environmental Quality (NCDEQ) and County soil & water conservation districts.
EPA regulates storm water disharges from construction Activities. NCDWQ is the least of my concern. They actually do good shit for the state. I said EPA toils with local municipalities over trivial shit. I know full well they dont issue permits. They don't do enough to hold big corporations feet to the fire when there are gross violations of policy but want to focus on shit that really gets in the way of finishing out construction and cause further enviro degradation.
Theres a double standard and that shit needs to stop. So fuck with a national home builder that has devices in place to curb toxic runoff to the best of their ability sans a monumental rainfall, but turn a blind eye to a state wide catastrophe? Who holds THEM accountable when they screw up? Do they fine themselves? I undestand shit happens sometimes but if the EPA is the highest scale by which these regs are enforced, shouldn't they lead by example?
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befuddled
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by befuddled » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:09 am

EPA didn't have any teeth anyway. I'm all for what it's designed to do but the only things get mitigated have been through litigation and local statutes/policies, actions from governors etc. Just ask the dude that used to hang around here that was from West Virginia. Fucking coal companies got "fined" by the EPA a billion times and never really paid a damn thing or changed anything because the EPA can't actually do anything.

Sucks.
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by D-nymph » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:26 am

Transylwader wrote: EPA regulates storm water disharges from construction Activities. NCDWQ is the least of my concern. They actually do good shit for the state. I said EPA toils with local municipalities over trivial shit. I know full well they dont issue permits. They don't do enough to hold big corporations feet to the fire when there are gross violations of policy but want to focus on shit that really gets in the way of finishing out construction and cause further enviro degradation.
Theres a double standard and that shit needs to stop. So fuck with a national home builder that has devices in place to curb toxic runoff to the best of their ability sans a monumental rainfall, but turn a blind eye to a state wide catastrophe? Who holds THEM accountable when they screw up? Do they fine themselves? I undestand shit happens sometimes but if the EPA is the highest scale by which these regs are enforced, shouldn't they lead by example?
I see what you're saying now, if you had mentioned NPDES regs in your first post I'd not have been confused as to your issue. I thought you were just pissed about the pickiness of E&S plans/permits by the state & county agencies. They can be strict, depending on the county & the client. I have had some clients who have continued to ignore their permits & repeatedly blow off requirements, which gives them a bad rep with the county (well deserved usually) and all their future projects suffer as a result. I've never had professional issues with the EPA. You & I do very similar work. Your jobs are likely larger in scale than mine & that could be why.
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Wingnut
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by Wingnut » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:33 am

Willi wrote:I'm old enough to remember the days before the Clean Water/Air Acts. The air in our major cities rivaled that in China's cities today. Many of our streams, rivers and lakes were sewers. Lake Erie was essentially dead and the other Great Lakes were following. A major river was so polluted it actually caught fire. The creeks where I grew up had piles of foam higher than my head floating down and were so polluted that even carp couldn't live in them. Now they hold gamefish. Today the Great Lakes are excellent fisheries, there are many thousands more miles of streams and rivers that support gamefish, our air is breathable etc etc etc The EPA isn't perfect, but it sure is better than corporate self regulation.

Willi
Well said Mr. Willi.

The congress has been weakening the effectiveness of the EPA for years. Mostly because the disbelief of human impact on our atmosphere. Also the lobbying by fossil fuel companies.
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ChaseChrome
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by ChaseChrome » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:49 am

Wingnut wrote: human impact on our atmosphere

Thought this was merely an inconvenient "alternative fact"

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Transylwader
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by Transylwader » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:12 am

D-nymph wrote: I see what you're saying now, if you had mentioned NPDES regs in your first post I'd not have been confused as to your issue. I thought you were just pissed about the pickiness of E&S plans/permits by the state & county agencies. They can be strict, depending on the county & the client. I have had some clients who have continued to ignore their permits & repeatedly blow off requirements, which gives them a bad rep with the county (well deserved usually) and all their future projects suffer as a result. I've never had professional issues with the EPA. You & I do very similar work. Your jobs are likely larger in scale than mine & that could be why.
Don, I am all for the state agencies. I enjoy working with the guys n gals down at DWQ, NCDEQ. They run a tight ship. I am just gob smacked how a huge Multi-Billion dollar corporation such as Dook Energy get to laugh about a destroyed river system because EPA won't hold them accountable. But my builders over in Morrsiville/Cary have EPA crawling up their asses because of encroaching on a supposed riparian buffer zone that the State and municipality has confirmed is several hundred yards away and we are well out of reach of the 100 year flood plain, but orders a cease and desist. It's just another way of EPA saying, we are in control and we will fuck you, but their big buddy who has the monopoly of a utility in the South East of this great nation, eh, we got their back and they can clean uptheir mess over 6 months, no, let's give them 12 months, eh, fuck it, let them clean it up when they feel like it. I'll continue to keep my head down, call a spade a spade and perhaps get deported to Canada and order those geese to quit shitting in the BMP's and eating the fucking aquatics! :coffee
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by peetso » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:25 am

Transylwader wrote: Don, I am all for the state agencies. I enjoy working with the guys n gals down at DWQ, NCDEQ. They run a tight ship. I am just gob smacked how a huge Multi-Billion dollar corporation such as Dook Energy get to laugh about a destroyed river system because EPA won't hold them accountable.
Seems to me then that everyone should be arguing for giving the EPA more teeth, more autonomy to enforce infractions on larger corporations, as opposed to arguing for the abolishment of the agency.

no?

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fallen513
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Re: H.R. 861: Terminate the EPA

Post by fallen513 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:33 am

Would you guys make your fuckin' minds up! I'm about to dump a quart of 10W-30 down the storm drain. Who do I call?
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