Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

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BigCliff
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by BigCliff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:14 am

West Chester wrote:
BigCliff wrote:
Motivated voters (grumpy independents and Conservatives) turned out to vote against a crappy candidate put forth by the Dem establishment. This is no way to win votes-
Cliff... what is the correct way to win votes? And motivated voters are a bad thing??

I believe that Mass has like 11% registered R's and 37% D's with the rest I's Seems to me that most I's voted for the R candidate. And in politics people generally vote for the lesser of two evils. So I have to agree, the tide is turning against the socialist policies of the current administration.
The correct way to win votes involves none of the following: offending all the sports fans that can vote for you, implying that you're ignorant of what we're doing in Afghanistan, and schmoozing with lobbyists. Motivated voters are not a bad thing at all. When the statewide turnout is about 1,000,000 lower than it was a year ago, its quite important. It appears that basically all of the MA voters that voted R last year turned out and did the same, and enough of the others changed their minds to swing it to Brown.

I think this assessment of the GOP's national situation is pretty accurate-
It's hard to say whether the Republicans will be able to replicate Brown's success nationally. In 1994, when the Republicans took control of the House and the Senate in the first midterm after Bill Clinton's election, they were guided by Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America. Now, instead of offering contracts to the public, Republicans are holding their own candidates to "purity pledges."

We have an RNC chairman who's known better for his gaffes and his speechmaking fees than anything else and who is on record saying the party won't take back the House in 2010. (Can you blame him, when a new poll shows that 25 percent of the public has a positive view of Republicans?) The most visible—though hardly the most likely—contender for the 2012 GOP nomination is Sarah Palin, who quit her job as governor of Alaska to write a book, take a Fox News gig, and appear on the cover of InTouch magazine. The party's great hope for the future, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, earned comparisons to Kenneth from 30 Rock for his disastrous response to Obama's congressional address last February and hasn't been heard from since. Perhaps most telling—and most troubling—is the London Telegraph's recently published list of top conservatives: Dick Cheney, unlikely ever to run for office again, is No. 1, followed by Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, Palin, Robert Gates (oh, breath of fresh air), and Glenn Beck.

Don't get me wrong: Brown's win is still important—and satisfying. It will provide the party with a needed morale boost going into this fall's campaign, and it will be entertaining to watch Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid try to get anything done without a supermajority that has slipped in and out of his fingers in the past year. So pass the Sam Adams. But let's not party like it's 1994.
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BigCliff
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by BigCliff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:16 am

Plow wrote:
BigCliff wrote: We'll see, but I just don't think so. Motivated voters (grumpy independents and Liberals) turned out to vote against a twocrappy candidates put forth by the Republican establishment. This is no way to win votes-
Holly cow! Thats just what happened in the last presidential election.
Dead on (with edit)
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Upsetter
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:08 pm

More people should be talking about what will happen if health care reform doesn't pass.

Currently 46 million people in this country have no health insurance. Those numbers will continue to grow. The uninsured will be less healthy, and taxpayers will pick up the cost in charity care when they end up in the emergency room.

Families will continue to be paralyzed by the high costs and insecurity of medical coverage. People will opt against entrepreneurial ventures and postpone retirement because of the need to stay on employer health plans.

Insurance companies will continue to deny people affordable coverage because of "preexisting" conditions. They will even rescind the policies of some patients who become sick.

We will continue to devote an ever-growing proportion of our spending on medical care. It currently consumes almost one-fifth of the nation's economy.

People will continue to die from preventable hospital infections and other unnecessary medical errors. Physicians will continue to be paid for procedures, not results.

We will continue to spend more on health care than any nation in the world while achieving mediocre results for most Americans.

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Lenny
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Lenny » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:08 pm

Why not try and reform Medicare first?

Upsetter, youre a smart guy. I just cant fathom how you would trust the bunch in Washington (all of them)to fix something that theyre responsible for breaking in the first place. I dont get it. This isnt about Left vs Right.

I think the Repubs are foolhardy to gloat about the MA win. Im happy about it, but the problems in Washington run so deep that it will take generations to fix.
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by ditchdoc » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:13 pm

Upsetter wrote:More people should be talking about what will happen if health care reform doesn't pass.

Currently 46 million people in this country have no health insurance. Those numbers will continue to grow. The uninsured will be less healthy, and taxpayers will pick up the cost in charity care when they end up in the emergency room.

Families will continue to be paralyzed by the high costs and insecurity of medical coverage. People will opt against entrepreneurial ventures and postpone retirement because of the need to stay on employer health plans.

Insurance companies will continue to deny people affordable coverage because of "preexisting" conditions. They will even rescind the policies of some patients who become sick.

We will continue to devote an ever-growing proportion of our spending on medical care. It currently consumes almost one-fifth of the nation's economy.

People will continue to die from preventable hospital infections and other unnecessary medical errors. Physicians will continue to be paid for procedures, not results.

We will continue to spend more on health care than any nation in the world while achieving mediocre results for most Americans.
I completely agree with this statement, but I lay the blame on our ineffectual representatives (and I use that term very lightly) and the American voter.

I believe that the average voter is largely ignorant, and wants to remain so. They expect instant results and are willing to vote the exact opposite of their previous vote, if they don't see immediate change. Many of them vote against their own best interests because they are too lazy to get informed. They are easily swayed by talking heads and never check the facts.

I've said it before. We should have a housecleaning in both parties. They cannot do the peoples business, because they can't see beyond the next election and they are totally controlled by the lobbyists and special interests. Their constituency is ignored, unless they yell really, really loud. Did you vote for your last representative so he/she could vote his/her conscience, or did you vote for them to represent the majority?

We get what we deserve. We're fucked.
Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is forever.

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Plow
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Plow » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:16 pm

Upsetter wrote: More people should be talking about what will happen if health care reform doesn't pass.
What? That’s all the libs will talk about! How about we talk about what will happen if it does pass.

Couple of other important things we should be talking about:
Why can’t the American voters see the health care bill before congress votes?
Why can’t we watch the “debates” on C Span as promised by Obama?

If this is Obama’s idea of transparency we don’t want him making car windshields.
Currently 46 million people in this country... any nation in the world while achieving mediocre results for most Americans.
Almost everyone agrees to some extent that improvements could be made in our health care system. On the other hand almost everyone agrees we have one of the best health care systems in the world.

As we’ve seen in the Virginia, New Jersey and now Massachusetts the voters don’t think Obama and the Democrats have the right ideas or process on reforms (among other things – the whole bad candidate theory is bogus).

The American people want transparency and the Republicans involved in this discussion. Obama promised this during the elections. Health care is too important to trust with just one party with deals made in secret.
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Upsetter
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:04 pm

Lenny wrote:Upsetter, youre a smart guy. I just cant fathom how you would trust the bunch in Washington (all of them)to fix something that theyre responsible for breaking in the first place. I dont get it. This isnt about Left vs Right.
Who said I trusted anybody? And I agree this shouldnt be about right and left. The debate started out that way as I remember, but quickly degraded once idiots like palin sounded the know-nothing charge against death panels and other made up bullshit. If healthcare reform doesnt happen, it wont be because of any legitimate issues that couldnt be worked out, it will be because of a concerted disinformation campaign waged by know-nothings, people who care nothing for the truth, designed to ensure the failure of BO's agenda and nothing more. The same thing will happen with financial reform, just watch.

What I based my comments above on is I know govco doesnt have generations to solve this problem, medicare/medicaid will bankrupt govco (many states and the fed) in the next 10-20 years, and then we will be officially bankrupt as a nation instead of just circling the toilet bowl. You worry about being a second class nation, this is the quickest way there I can think of.

The only reform for these two programs, short of reforming the whole industry to reduce costs (the effort at hand, however imperfect it may be), is to drastically reduce enrollment numbers and benefits. If we do that, we are then back to the "dont get sick gramps/poor dude, and if you do, die quickly, on the curb" program.

One thing I realize that perhaps you dont is that laws/reforms such as these get tinkered with for decades after the fact, they are not set in stone once enacted, even the repubs will get their crack at it if/when they regain a majority. No major reform is perfect out of the gates, and every single one has seen dozens of amendments since its enactment. This reform would be no different. But it is a reform that we have largely avoided for two decades and it is a major threat to our nation's economic viability at this point.

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Upsetter
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:40 pm

Plow wrote:What? That’s all the libs will talk about! How about we talk about what will happen if it does pass.

Couple of other important things we should be talking about:
Why can’t the American voters see the health care bill before congress votes?
Why can’t we watch the “debates” on C Span as promised by Obama?

The American people want transparency and the Republicans involved in this discussion. Obama promised this during the elections. Health care is too important to trust with just one party with deals made in secret.
No, not really. If limpdick and co have been good at one thing, its been screaming their reasons for hating BO and anything he does louder than any other voice in the public sphere. They are a loud, obnoxious, and constant presence that has consumed much of the debate. In other words, they have done the lion's share of framing the nation's thought processes and debate on the issues, even now I am taking my time to restate this obvious fact AGAIN.

On transparency, do you realize what process is taking place right now? Are you familiar with the messages between the houses process? How would you televise such a process? Further, do you realize that this healthcare reform effort, going back to the spring, btw all the cspan coverage and all of the town hall meetings, has been the most transparent legislative effort in our history?

And, if the repubs wanted a seat at the table, why did they completely disengage from the process and start lying and name calling (aka, acting like children) months ago? To appease the great doughboy limpdick and his calls for BO's head on a platter? Funny thing is, they got everything they could have wanted out of a dem congress with a supermajority, didnt have to lift a finger to get it, and STILL they act like jackasses. The dems may be a sorry lot, unable to get much done, but I look at it as the blue dogs doing the repubs job for them cause they are a bunch of dumbshits, save collins and snowe, who did make an effort, but capitulated to the taunts of their childish partymates.
Last edited by Upsetter on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BigCliff
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by BigCliff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:41 pm

I agree with Upsetter's prior post.

One benefit that may come out of all this, is that HCR gets revamped into something more incremental/less drastic that goes into effect quicker. I had real concerns about the plan in the senate bill taking so long to get started that it got overturned prior to doing any good.

We'll see if the dems are smart enough to realize that they're better off enacting something Snowe will agree to than nothing at all.
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Plow
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Plow » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:27 pm

Old limpdick and the repubs sadly can take almost no credit for this.

The health care plan in its many variations was just too damn radical for all but the most extreme democrat. The delay in passing was caused getting the blue-dogs on board (an intentional delay on their part IMHO). Republicans were never needed to pass it and the dems were only going to comprise enough for 60 dem votes.

If the dems want repubs on board they will have to compromise and give them a bit of say in the matter. If not Nov will be bloody.
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BigCliff
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by BigCliff » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:04 pm

Plow wrote:The health care plan in its many variations was just too damn radical for all but the most extreme democrat.
This is just so wrong its ridiculous. Roughly half of the population still supports the effort. If it was only supported by the "extreme dems", then the D/R split in the US Congress would look like MA's does, instead of looking like Virginia's. Even as it now stands, the plan suits the vast majority of the House, and 59% of the Senate.

Better luck next time.
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Lenny
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Re: Get Out And Vote Mass!!!

Post by Lenny » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:29 pm

Upsetter wrote:
Plow wrote:What? That’s all the libs will talk about! How about we talk about what will happen if it does pass.

Couple of other important things we should be talking about:
Why can’t the American voters see the health care bill before congress votes?
Why can’t we watch the “debates” on C Span as promised by Obama?

The American people want transparency and the Republicans involved in this discussion. Obama promised this during the elections. Health care is too important to trust with just one party with deals made in secret.
No, not really. If limpdick and co have been good at one thing, its been screaming their reasons for hating BO and anything he does louder than any other voice in the public sphere. They are a loud, obnoxious, and constant presence that has consumed much of the debate. In other words, they have done the lion's share of framing the nation's thought processes and debate on the issues, even now I am taking my time to restate this obvious fact AGAIN.

On transparency, do you realize what process is taking place right now? Are you familiar with the messages between the houses process? How would you televise such a process? Further, do you realize that this healthcare reform effort, going back to the spring, btw all the cspan coverage and all of the town hall meetings, has been the most transparent legislative effort in our history?

And, if the repubs wanted a seat at the table, why did they completely disengage from the process and start lying and name calling (aka, acting like children) months ago? To appease the great doughboy limpdick and his calls for BO's head on a platter? Funny thing is, they got everything they could have wanted out of a dem congress with a supermajority, didnt have to lift a finger to get it, and STILL they act like jackasses. The dems may be a sorry lot, unable to get much done, but I look at it as the blue dogs doing the repubs job for them cause they are a bunch of dumbshits, save collins and snowe, who did make an effort, but capitulated to the taunts of their childish partymates.
Add all of these insults to include the Palin comments and you have the one thing I hate about elitist-smarter-than-everyone-else liberals. Why so angry anyways?
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