[flybug.pa.]

We are collectively killing ourselves, not so slowly anymore. And fuck Bundy. I hear Free range cattle is tasty. I hate spell check too.

[blumpkin]

We are either going to implement a policy that moves us forward into renewable energy and off of the OPEC teat or we are going to wake up one day and find ourselves out of oil and with few alternatives, relative to how much oil we are using. Let's get the ball rolling now and move forward.

A great pitch... Who would argue with that...

But.

Do some research into what an inefficient cost prohibitive wildlife zapping pile of Chinese bullshit these solar farms are.

Put crews together and mount this stuff on rooftops where they belong.
Use aluminum and technology and components manufactured here in the U.S.
Put BM in charge of it, he would win every bid and set records for covering rooftops with Solar panels.
All sorts of American families would MAKE money, and benefit greatly from such a program.

But instead, we get...

Just another bullshit scam we are borrowing Chinese dollars for... to hand it right back to them.

By the way, they are digging up your beloved Montana, as quick as they can to provide the coal so China
can manufacture all sorts of unnecessary shit for bogus "Green Energy" projects.

Just think of the Carbon footprint involved in Mining Coal in Montana, loading it on Trucks, then Trains, then ships. Pushing that coal all the way to Motherfucking China. So they can burn it, to build a bunch of crap, that everybody knows doesn't really work cost effectively.

Those tar sands look horrible Canook.

[Adams]

Cantfish's - Renewables don't replace OPEC.

How many oil fired electrical generators are there in the US? Or wind powered cars?

[B.M. Barrelcooker]

I agree the tar sands look bad. Real bad .

However I can show you a six hundred acre former coal processing facility that 20 years ago I would have called a superfund site and never believed it could recover. Today it is a wildlife haven and as a matter of fact the place where I'm doing my musky project. That goes to say that nature can recover from these awful abuses.


And now that I'm in charge of solar farms I say we start in Detroit. Plenty of open land and in place infrastructure. Plus the local economy could use a little boost. No turtles to displace either.

[jdub]

It could be worse...

Damn! Hell of a legacy to leave for the grandkids.

[cantfishforshit]

Cantfish's - Renewables don't replace OPEC.

How many oil fired electrical generators are there in the US? Or wind powered cars?

You are missing the point; Replace most cars with hybrids and half of your problem is solved. Develop electrics that can go 200-300 miles on a charge and that charge in 15 minutes or less and we are rid of them because we have enough oil on our own land to fuel the semis etc, if our cars aren't burning gas and oil every day. Most people commute less than an hour to work. Develop electrics to the point that they can make that round trip in one charge and we are rid of most of our dependency on oil. These are long term solutions that we need to be developing now. Wind and solar help get rid of opec by providing renewable energy to offset the electric energy consumed by cars that we should be using in the future. In other words; they replace oil with electric energy. I suppose we could build more coal and nuclear but wind and solar is a hell of a lot cleaner, not to mention safer. They say the new nuclear designs are "full proof," but they are not and coal is dirty, even with the new scrubbers, compared to wind and solar.

[cantfishforshit]

I agree the tar sands look bad. Real bad .

However I can show you a six hundred acre former coal processing facility that 20 years ago I would have called a superfund site and never believed it could recover. Today it is a wildlife haven and as a matter of fact the place where I'm doing my musky project. That goes to say that nature can recover from these awful abuses.


And now that I'm in charge of solar farms I say we start in Detroit. Plenty of open land and in place infrastructure. Plus the local economy could use a little boost. No turtles to displace either.

Hell, start on our own roofs. Almost every roof I've ever seen gets at least a good bit of sun. We all have wind that blows by our homes. We don't need the giant mills to do everything.

[fatman]

I would like to see studies on game bird avoidance. Even if it's true, we need alternative energy sources beyond what we can pump out of the ground and we need to start building them now, not 10 or 20 years from now.

http://kec.kansas.gov/wptf/robertrobel.pdf
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0026698


So, what you're saying in the second sentence is that our need for energy is greater than the need to protect a game bird species?
What if this were a logging operation at the head of your favorite trout stream?

Why the fuck did we get all worked up about Pebble Mine?

[B.M. Barrelcooker]

I agree the tar sands look bad. Real bad .

However I can show you a six hundred acre former coal processing facility that 20 years ago I would have called a superfund site and never believed it could recover. Today it is a wildlife haven and as a matter of fact the place where I'm doing my musky project. That goes to say that nature can recover from these awful abuses.


And now that I'm in charge of solar farms I say we start in Detroit. Plenty of open land and in place infrastructure. Plus the local economy could use a little boost. No turtles to displace either.

Hell, start on our own roofs. Almost every roof I've ever seen gets at least a good bit of sun. We all have wind that blows by our homes. We don't need the giant mills to do everything.

I'm in charge here and I say Detroit.

I suppose you already drive a hybrid and have solar panels and a windmill or two.

The change is going to have to be bigger than a cookie cutter beauracratic policy . The change will have to be in each of us and our attitudes and desires.

Oh and I think you meant "fool proof ".

[blumpkin]

Loving the Detroit idea, at least we can build our photovotalic cells and panels there.
Alcoa in Cleveland, can produce the aluminum for the frames and such.

If we don't buy Detroit, China will.. for pennies on our dollar.

[cantfishforshit]

I would like to see studies on game bird avoidance. Even if it's true, we need alternative energy sources beyond what we can pump out of the ground and we need to start building them now, not 10 or 20 years from now.

http://kec.kansas.gov/wptf/robertrobel.pdf
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0026698


So, what you're saying in the second sentence is that our need for energy is greater than the need to protect a game bird species?
What if this were a logging operation at the head of your favorite trout stream?

Why the fuck did we get all worked up about Pebble Mine?

Birds "avoiding" an area isn't the same as completely destroying an eco system and that mine was going to destroy the local system. As long as logging is done is a sustainable, responsible way, I don't have a problem with it.

[cantfishforshit]

I agree the tar sands look bad. Real bad .

However I can show you a six hundred acre former coal processing facility that 20 years ago I would have called a superfund site and never believed it could recover. Today it is a wildlife haven and as a matter of fact the place where I'm doing my musky project. That goes to say that nature can recover from these awful abuses.


And now that I'm in charge of solar farms I say we start in Detroit. Plenty of open land and in place infrastructure. Plus the local economy could use a little boost. No turtles to displace either.

Hell, start on our own roofs. Almost every roof I've ever seen gets at least a good bit of sun. We all have wind that blows by our homes. We don't need the giant mills to do everything.

I'm in charge here and I say Detroit.

I suppose you already drive a hybrid and have solar panels and a windmill or two.

The change is going to have to be bigger than a cookie cutter beauracratic policy . The change will have to be in each of us and our attitudes and desires.

Oh and I think you meant "fool proof ".

Would you say that our nuclear and coal powered plants were a "cookie cutter policy?"