PSA: Religious LIberties

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BigCliff
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PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by BigCliff » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:19 pm

Pretty straightforward, really

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Plow
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by Plow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:45 pm

The real issue is if you're a baker, photographer or anything else and are asked to participate in an activity that's against your religious beliefs you should have the right to NOT participate. You should also be protected from the hate-mongering left for practicing your religion.

That said, not wanting to bake a cake for a gay wedding is one thing, not selling cookies to gays is a whole other ball game.

If libs had half a nut between them they ask a muslim baker for a cake. Libs are such hate filed hypocrites.
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VTNZ
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by VTNZ » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:04 pm

lol...oh man....

So plow...would you sell a gay muslim cookies?

Would you bake him a cake as well?
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canook
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by canook » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:48 am

Plow wrote:Libs are such hate filed hypocrites.
Fucking hypocritical Libs.
They should be more tolerant of your intolerance.

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cantfishforshit.
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by cantfishforshit. » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:25 am

Where do turnovers fit in? Ok to sell to gays or not? Can they at least call in the order and pick it up at the back door like we used to make black people do? It would probably be a travesty to feed gays. That's how it started out with blacks and the next thing you know they wanted civil rights and everything.
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Muddled Duck
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by Muddled Duck » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:52 am

I'm for private business owners having the right to refuse business to anyone. Public places are a whole different thing. I'm a bit torn on the whole issue of having separate public restrooms for men and women. Is that sex discrimination?
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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canook
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by canook » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:18 pm

Muddled Duck wrote:I'm for private business owners having the right to refuse business to anyone.
yeah, fuck that all people being equal nonsense. Who was stupid enough to suggest that in the first place.

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BigTimber
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by BigTimber » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:03 pm

Muddled Duck wrote:I'm a bit torn on the whole issue of having separate public restrooms for men and women. Is that sex discrimination?
No, it's tranny discrimination....not that there's anything wrong with tranny's. they make me chuckle every time I walk by them out side the 801 in Key West.
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BigTimber
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by BigTimber » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:05 pm

did I ever tell you about the aboriginal tranny I saw in austria? you've never seen a tranny until you've seen an aboriginal tranny.
This place has enough jiggly milkbags, marsupials fisting off, and animated cherubs getting stabbed in the fuck to get anyone shitcanned, if''n their boss can''t take a joke. ~SUAF

Pussy, much like freedom, ain't free.

America has become a dildo that has turned berserkly on its owner. ~McGuane 1971

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Upsetter
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by Upsetter » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:06 pm

Muddled Duck wrote:I'm for private business owners having the right to refuse business to anyone. Public places are a whole different thing.
A business that is "open to the public" is a public place; thats settled law, youre either open to the public or youre not. That said, all businesses reserve the right to refuse business to anyone. It just cant be solely because they are black or whatever federally protected class they might be. You can always refuse business to a black/white/whatever race person cause they are behaving like a jackass in your place of business.

This situation that im guessing spurred the op is a bit different imo. I havent read the law, but im guessing the service providers this law is (hopefully) narrowly targeting are those who are significantly involved in the "marraige business" and possibly "family/estate planning". Wedding photographers, planners, decorators, financial consultant, estate planner, etc. I would distinguish this relatively narrow class of business owners from all others in that the level of contact, the intimacy of contact is much higher than a dry cleaner or c-store owner. The question then becomes: where do the rights of gay folk to contract with whom they choose run afoul of others rights to practice their religion as they see fit?

I will co-opt number three from the op table, rephrased accordingly, to illustrate my point:

Religious Liberty is being violated
Being forced to spend many hours photographing/planning a gay wedding even though gay marriage is against your religion.

Religious Liberty is not being violated:
You are unable to prevent gay people from being married if they so choose.

Where does the level of contact, type of contact cross the line btw whose rights are being violated (religious freedom vs gay rights/equal protection)? Well, that appears to be the question pence is trying to answer. Whether he got it right or wrong I cant say.

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Muddled Duck
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by Muddled Duck » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:05 pm

Upsetter wrote:
Muddled Duck wrote:I'm for private business owners having the right to refuse business to anyone. Public places are a whole different thing.
A business that is "open to the public" is a public place; thats settled law, youre either open to the public or youre not. That said, all businesses reserve the right to refuse business to anyone. It just cant be solely because they are black or whatever federally protected class they might be. You can always refuse business to a black/white/whatever race person cause they are behaving like a jackass in your place of business.
I understand that. I simply disagree. I think it would generally be a stupid way to run a business, but that isn't the issue. I don't plan to march, write letters or make phone calls. Simply a personal opinion. Certainly not the only law with which I disagree.
This situation that im guessing spurred the op is a bit different imo. I havent read the law, but im guessing the service providers this law is (hopefully) narrowly targeting are those who are significantly involved in the "marraige business" and possibly "family/estate planning". Wedding photographers, planners, decorators, financial consultant, estate planner, etc. I would distinguish this relatively narrow class of business owners from all others in that the level of contact, the intimacy of contact is much higher than a dry cleaner or c-store owner. The question then becomes: where do the rights of gay folk to contract with whom they choose run afoul of others rights to practice their religion as they see fit?

I will co-opt number three from the op table, rephrased accordingly, to illustrate my point:

Religious Liberty is being violated
Being forced to spend many hours photographing/planning a gay wedding even though gay marriage is against your religion.

Religious Liberty is not being violated:
You are unable to prevent gay people from being married if they so choose.

Where does the level of contact, type of contact cross the line btw whose rights are being violated (religious freedom vs gay rights/equal protection)? Well, that appears to be the question pence is trying to answer. Whether he got it right or wrong I cant say.
Good post.
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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Muddled Duck
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Re: PSA: Religious LIberties

Post by Muddled Duck » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:08 pm

canook wrote:
Muddled Duck wrote:I'm for private business owners having the right to refuse business to anyone.
yeah, fuck that all people being equal nonsense. Who was stupid enough to suggest that in the first place.
The fuck does "all men are created equal" have to do with it? The government should NOT be allowed to discriminate, but I have a different opinion regarding private business.
"Don Jacobo Crespin y McGillicuddy awoke at noon, feeling refreshed and languorous at the same time, one of the neatest tricks a man can perform."

“Which way General?” the aide asked. “Either,” Forrest growled. “If one road led to Hell and the other to Mexico, I would be indifferent which to take.”

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