Troubled and conflicetd.

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yard4sale
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by yard4sale » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:43 pm

OK, so maybe the fix your own house comment was a bit over the top. But in the few posts since then the US is now tasked with fixing famine and any religious war refugee. How many billion people does that cover?

I did say earlier I'm fine with legal immigrants. I'm not fine with just opening the borders. So where do we draw the line between anybody who can get here is OK vs closing the door(as if thats possible).

I really don't see terrorism threat being much of a deciding factor in what that limit is though.
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SOBF
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by SOBF » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:02 pm

OK, so maybe the fix your own house comment was a bit over the top. But in the few posts since then the US is now tasked with fixing famine and any religious war refugee. How many billion people does that cover?

I did say earlier I'm fine with legal immigrants. I'm not fine with just opening the borders. So where do we draw the line between anybody who can get here is OK vs closing the door(as if thats possible).

I really don't see terrorism threat being much of a deciding factor in what that limit is though.
Terrorism factor is a big part for me. How can you just let people come in with no vetting ? I'm fine allowing people in that have been vetted.

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austrotard
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by austrotard » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:09 pm

for the first time in four years I was finally tsa approved. (got to wear me shoes and hat!*)

youse guys might want to be a lil' bit more stringent than that.




*stuffed with drugs and spendy see candies.
we'll always have buffalo, sweet josh.

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peetso
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by peetso » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:13 pm

yard4sale wrote:OK, so maybe the fix your own house comment was a bit over the top. But in the few posts since then the US is now tasked with fixing famine and any religious war refugee. How many billion people does that cover?
We aren't talking about billions of people, we are talking about 4 million people (2 million of which are kids) leaving a bombed out country thats been in civil war hell for 4 years and their only other options are to live under ISIS rules, join them, or be beheaded, tortured, immolated, etc. and then have they're sons and daughters sold into slavery.

this isn't a migration of convenience my friend.

and no one has tasked the US with fixing or solving anything, other than doing its fair share of taking on refugees. Because those refugees are already in Europe, (and there's 25,000 coming to Canada by the New Year) and being as it was the States unjustified and non UN sanctioned war in Iraq that led to this fucking mess, taking on its fair share of refugees shouldn't be too much to ask.
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peetso
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by peetso » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:15 pm

SOBF wrote: Terrorism factor is a big part for me. How can you just let people come in with no vetting ? I'm fine allowing people in that have been vetted.

Do you really think they're just going to open the door and welcome the first 75,000 in line?
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VTNZ
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by VTNZ » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:18 pm

Well, there's a few distinctions to be made:

Refugee status is one thing.

"Wanting" to move to the US legally is another thing.

"Wanting" to move to the US illegally,yet another.

To that end, don't get to mericacentric about this: they aren't packing up the bombed out apartment building and kids and getting on boat to Europe...

...cuz they "want" to go to the US. They simply have run out of options,and europe, traditionally has had two things going for it:

Established muslim populations and therefore potential of actual relatives/family up there

And Tolerance.

The US has some muslim populations, but look at how they're being treated now. Quickest way to radicalize someone anywhere? Make their life and quality of life feel worthless and hopeless...and 66 virgins in heaven looks pretty flash. And to be fair, in the US with the lack of mental illness priorities and such, we see the same sentiment by these young lone wolf males who feel "useless" and take it out on folks in movie theatres,schools,etc.

And we apparently like winless wars over tolerance now...

The fact is most of this Syria shit started around 2006, when the combo of Iraq refugees (oh the irony),lots of them farmers, went to Syria as the US invasion destabilized or blew up their lives in Iraq. At the same time, a monster drought hit Syria and crops collapsed, which caused rural farming Syrians who were poor as fuck anyways, into the same areas of Syria where the Iraq refugees went.
Strains on society ensued; rival existing factions took advantage of the situation, and a dictator felt his stability rocked, started bombing his own country to restore his power platform.

As more and more of the world suffers droughts, floods, sea level rise,etc. You will see more refugees....and not from the middle east,and not just from religous wars or US war profiteering. From what I read recently, we're looking at 100 million refugees worldwide being checker pieces by 2030 due mostly to climate related issues; which have a knock on effect as described above.

It's gonna be ugly, no way around it. But the moving to the US of all places is not the dream or #1 desire of most refugees in the M.E. Pomy English teachers? Sure....and they should be let in. But you have to ask in those instances, is the US immigration dept keeping some foreigners who WANT to move to the US in order to protect job opps for folks actually born here and are citizens? Does that not make sense to most; left or right leaning? NZ does not let folks move here and take jobs that kiwis could do; they accept skilled migrants that fit particular shortages in their industries. But we also take in refugees....cuz kiwis are tolerant like that. Last April, I took a cab to a rugby match; a paki driver on the way in, an afghani on the way out. Nice folks, sad stories about them getting in, but their parents, families still there in strife. Got back to VT,and no kidding, got a cab from the airport, and Iraqi refugee. Ex-translator; would've been killed if left in Iraq. Whole family still there. Asked him if he was treated ok in VT, he said, mostly,yes. But tough situations all around, no doubt about it.

I see Peetso put it succinctly... :cool
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yard4sale
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by yard4sale » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:28 pm

So Syrians are in.
What about Somalis?

Or is this a squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing?
You can't go back and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will

When your choices are between a pedophile religious zealot or a dem suddenly the pedophile religious zealot doesn't sound too bad. - PLOW

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Randall Dee
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Randall Dee » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:58 pm

yard4sale wrote:So Syrians are in.
What about Somalis?

Or is this a squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing?
For the past three fiscal years, the U.S. has capped the annual number of refugees it will accept at 70,000. Of the 57,350 refugees admitted so far this year, most have come from Burma (13,831), Iraq (10,898) or Somalia (7,642). Since 1975, according to data from the State Department’s Refugee Processing Center, more than 3 million refugees have been admitted to the U.S.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -refugees/

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yard4sale
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by yard4sale » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Dammit Randy, don't you go confusing this argument with facts. Then it spirals downward into a debate.

So is this the system working or not working?

Should we change the allowed number in accordance to the conflicts or leave as is?

How do we choose who gets to be in the allowance?
You can't go back and you can't stand still
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will

When your choices are between a pedophile religious zealot or a dem suddenly the pedophile religious zealot doesn't sound too bad. - PLOW

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austrotard
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by austrotard » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:38 pm

yard4sale wrote:Dammit Randy, don't you go confusing this argument with facts. Then it spirals downward into a debate.

So is this the system working or not working?

look around you. from where you're sitting it's working very well.

Should we change the allowed number in accordance to the conflicts or leave as is?

we'll get bradshaw to work out the formula but if we base it on seppo blame you may have to share your bed and bath next year with a few others.

How do we choose who gets to be in the allowance?

spelling bee of course. or cricket stats.
we do both for a laugh and then don't let anyone in who isn't english.

'king oat'.
we'll always have buffalo, sweet josh.

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Hogleg
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by Hogleg » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:41 pm

I say we start an exchange program, 1 for 1. The vetting process should work both ways. Basically like this in very simple terms:

When we vet out or determine that one refugee deserves or has otherwise earned their right to come into our country we then turn to the pool of shit bags already in this country and find one that has lost their right to be here. I'm talking career criminals, rapists, pedophiles, etc. Put those fuckers on a boat and let them find a new home somewhere.
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T.J. Brayshaw
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Re: Troubled and conflicetd.

Post by T.J. Brayshaw » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:44 pm

It's BraYshaw, for fuck's sake. What's with you people?

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