[Upsetter]

Matt- if the 2000+ page healthcare bill is so great why do votes for it need to be bribed and why is it negotiated behind closed doors?

Every peice of legislation is "negotiated" behind closed doors, that is why. How many times do I have to say it? I thought it hilarious that when mitch mcconnell was put on the spot to explain the republican's version of healthcare reform, the first thing that came out of that dipshit's mouth was "televise it all on c-span". WTF does that have to do with healthcare reform?!? It is also worth noting that the rest of his answer was the same bullshit talking points that are already addressed in the senate bill in one way or another. But see, the repub position isnt one of reason anymore, it is one designed to skullfuck the president's agenda so come november they can point and say "look, he/they cant do shit, elect us". Real nice.

On another note, from a fiscal conservative's viewpoint, what do yall think was the worst part of the speech? The dozen words or so that literally let the air out of this fiscal conservative's tires and made my eyes glaze over. Ill give ya a hint, it was during a part of the speech that got several standing applauses out of the dipshits on the right who were mostly pouting, scowling, and mouthing epithets rather than shouting them out and interrupting the speech.

Also, Alito is an ass and made a mockery out of I dont know how much history of decorum by the high court during a SOTU. I guess he just couldnt help his right wing knee jerkism, seems all to common these days. At least he didnt shout out, YOU LIE!!

[LTD]

Matt- if the 2000+ page healthcare bill is so great why do votes for it need to be bribed and why is it negotiated behind closed doors?

Every peice of legislation is "negotiated" behind closed doors, that is why. How many times do I have to say it? I thought it hilarious that when mitch mcconnell was put on the spot to explain the republican's version of healthcare reform, the first thing that came out of that dipshit's mouth was "televise it all on c-span". WTF does that have to do with healthcare reform?!? It is also worth noting that the rest of his answer was the same bullshit talking points that are already addressed in the senate bill in one way or another. But see, the repub position isnt one of reason anymore, it is one designed to skullfuck the president's agenda so come november they can point and say "look, he/they cant do shit, elect us". Real nice. Granted..every piece of legislation has indeed been "negotiated behind closed doors to this point...BUT this admin (and OBAMA himself) promised that it would no longer be done this way. And yes...it has nothing to do with whats in the bill but EVERYTHING to do with public trust and faith in this ass. FUCKING FAIL! If their is NOTHING to hide make it public. An easy win for Obama. WHY hasn't he done it? Answer that UP. You too MATT.

On another note, from a fiscal conservative's viewpoint, what do yall think was the worst part of the speech? The dozen words or so that literally let the air out of this fiscal conservative's tires and made my eyes glaze over. Ill give ya a hint, it was during a part of the speech that got several standing applauses out of the dipshits on the right who were mostly pouting, scowling, and mouthing epithets rather than shouting them out and interrupting the speech. Did you really expect those that disagree with Obama's policy to applaud and pat this fucker on the back? REALLY? GTFO.

Also, Alito is an ass and made a mockery out of I dont know how much history of decorum by the high court during a SOTU. I guess he just couldnt help his right wing knee jerkism, seems all to common these days. At least he didnt shout out, YOU LIE!! Take a look at the rest of the court UP.....They were just as unhappy as Alito was when Obama called them ALL out.

The only adda boy Obama deserves was his statement regarding new energy and his willingness to look at drilling and nuke power NOW. I won't be holding my breath though.

[Plow]

Matt- if the 2000+ page healthcare bill is so great why do votes for it need to be bribed and why is it negotiated behind closed doors?

Every peice of legislation is "negotiated" behind closed doors, that is why. How many times do I have to say it?

You have to say it as many times as Obama said the health care bill will be different and it will be negotiated in the open for all to see (that’s the C-Span part). This was some of the CHANGE Obama promised us. He lied.

I thought it hilarious that when mitch mcconnell was put on the spot to explain the republican's version of healthcare reform, the first thing that came out of that dipshit's mouth was "televise it all on c-span". WTF does that have to do with healthcare reform?!? It is also worth noting that the rest of his answer was the same bullshit talking points that are already addressed in the senate bill in one way or another. But see, the repub position isnt one of reason anymore, it is one designed to skullfuck the president's agenda so come november they can point and say "look, he/they cant do shit, elect us". Real nice.

The republicans have been spending all their time trying to stop the socialist dumb-asses from ruining this country. I’m sure if the democrats are serious about getting republican help they’ll come up with something.

Democrates had a super majority for almost a year. It was democrats that skullfucked the president’s agenda; republicans had nothing to do with it. Democrats can't even win when they won.

On another note, from a fiscal conservative's viewpoint, what do yall think was the worst part of the speech? The dozen words or so that literally let the air out of this fiscal conservative's tires and made my eyes glaze over. Ill give ya a hint, it was during a part of the speech that got several standing applauses out of the dipshits on the right who were mostly pouting, scowling, and mouthing epithets rather than shouting them out and interrupting the speech.

Obama.

Also, Alito is an ass and made a mockery out of I dont know how much history of decorum by the high court during a SOTU. I guess he just couldnt help his right wing knee jerkism, seems all to common these days. At least he didnt shout out, YOU LIE!!

Obama (and the Dems) took a seriously cheap shot at the court. And Obama lied; sometime people who care about the truth just can’t control themselves.

Very sad performance on Obama's part last night.

[Upsetter]

Okay, lets get down to brass tacks on this cspan crap, how much cspan do any of you actually watch in a day? How much of the live televised floor debate, house or senate? What about the committee hearings, anybody catch one of those this week? What about the nightly recaps of the day's highlights (what I usually watch as I am at work all day)? I am curious cause if you dont, then you simply arent qualified to even comment on this issue. Cspan and cspan2 are my goto channels, the first thing I flip to when i turn on the boob tube, the only unfiltered source of info about the day on the hill. I will admit to moving on if its uninteresting, but I would say I watch more of it than 95% of the populous. I can tell you from experience that anything that goes on in front of the cspan cameras is meant for the cameras, even grilling witnesses like the big bank ceo's last week. Anybody catch that, or just the faux news digested portions? The real meat has always been hashed out behind closed doors.

Other than making platitudinous statements that congress is going to ignore and which he has no power to enforce, what exactly do you expect out of BO? To not even try to put pressure on congress? Cause that is all his efforts amount to, calling them out. Further, a huge amount of what happened in the healthcare legislation debate was on cspan or the news networks (floor debates, committee hearings, and town hall meetings), more televised hours than any other major peice of legislation in history from what I understand. But, because the dipshits are out on their ears by their own doing, they make a show about nothing, and you are lapping it up. It is all a show, both from BO's side cause he cant control what congress does, and from the repubs side cause if they were involved in the negotiations. I am quite sure they would be fine with not airing their dirty laundry if they were actually involved in this anymore, eg point scorin hypocrits AGAIN.

As far as Alito, well, nobody commented on any other justice's reaction or the joint chiefs when he laid into them. To this point, none of the justices have publicly commented on the speech since, and they shouldnt, so I dont know where you are coming up with your allegations about the rest of the Court's reaction. I will leave it to a sharp legal commentator to give you my perspective on BO vs Alito:

Right-wing criticisms -- that it was Obama who acted inappropriately by using his SOTU address to condemn the Court's decision -- are just inane. Obama is an elected politician in a political branch and has every right to express his views on such a significant court ruling. While the factual claims Obama made about the ruling are subject to reasonable dispute, they're well within the realm of acceptable political rhetoric and are far from being "false"..Presidents have a long history of condemning Court rulings with which they disagree -- Republican politicians, including Presidents, have certainly never shied away from condemning Roe v. Wade in the harshest of terms -- and Obama's comments last night were entirely consistent with that practice. While Presidents do not commonly criticize the Court in the SOTU address, it is far from unprecedented either.

Justice Alito's flamboyantly insinuating himself into a pure political event, in a highly politicized manner, will only hasten the decline of the Court's reputation. On a night when both tradition and the Court's role dictate that he sit silent and inexpressive, he instead turned himself into a partisan sideshow -- a conservative Republican judge departing from protocol to openly criticize a Democratic President -- with Republicans predictably defending him and Democrats doing the opposite. Alito is now a political (rather than judicial) hero to Republicans and a political enemy of Democrats, which is exactly the role a Supreme Court Justice should not occupy.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... 1/28/alito

BTW, in another oped peice, this same guy basically agreed with the CU decision on 1st amendment grounds, so did I, but also like me felt it was an aggredious exercise of judicial activism to even rehear the case, much less issue such an expansive decision.

[LTD]

Up...you are avoiding the question. Why after Obama promised to televise the proceedings has he not done it? I don't give a damn how many do or do not watch Cspan....If there is NOTHING to hide, NOTHING both the RIGHT AND LEFT don't want the American people to see then why not televise it? A perfect opportunity for Obama to make good on one of his promises...shit this could be one of his biggest successes during his term!

As for the other SCJ's look at their faces in the video...tell me they were not disappointed with what Obama said. Do you honestly feel the SOTU address was the place to scold the SC?

[Shufisher]

All the spin in the world, as desperate as it is, cannot change the fact that he (The Messiah) was completely out of line.

[troutsnot]

Sit on your hands Good Ol' Boys....

A couple of things I picked up from last evening.

Obama said-

"Lets take 30 billion that Wallstreet banks have re-paid and give it to small banks so they can extend credit to help small banks stay afloat"
No response from the Right, sit on your hands and scowl.

"If these firms can afford to pay big bonuses again, they can afford the modest fee to pay back the tax payers who rescued them in their time of need"
No response from the Right, sit on your hands and scowl.

Obama- " it is finally time to slash the tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas, and give those tax breaks to those that companies that create jobs right here in the United states of America".
No Response, sit on your hands and scowl.

Boehner, Cantor, McCain, Smarmy disrespectful fucks. I don't give a fuck how you think of feel on an issue, or a political party you respect the office at the State of the Union. I heard that Boehner actually raised his hand when Obama said, if anyone on the right has a better idea let me know? McCain mouthed the words "blame it on bush" and shook his head when BO was stating fact of the numbers he inherited. Wasn't Mccain Bashing Bush on Campaign trail a year and 1/2 ago or so.
It was Limbaugh who said when bush was in office,that liberals should "shut up, because elections have consequences"
So I say to all the fucks present last night, Right and left, there, if you do not have anything constructive to bring to the table, shut the fuck up, or you can crawl out from under the table, pull out your fucking pacifiers, quit your pouting, wipe your tears off on the shit stained carpet, change your tampon, and show some class. But then again, it is easier to be smarmy and just say no. Then again, Why not, the Nascar, frightened Joe Beer can sheep are following in droves. Don't worry boys, keep those hands warm, you just may get your chance to save the world with all your great ideas that your hiding from all of us in 3 short years.

[LTD]

Sit on your hands Good Ol' Boys....

A couple of things I picked up from last evening.

Obama said-

"Lets take 30 billion that Wallstreet banks have re-paid and give it to small banks so they can extend credit to help small banks stay afloat"
No response from the Right, sit on your hands and scowl.

"If these firms can afford to pay big bonuses again, they can afford the modest fee to pay back the tax payers who rescued them in their time of need"
No response from the Right, sit on your hands and scowl.

Obama- " it is finally time to slash the tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas, and give those tax breaks to those that companies that create jobs right here in the United states of America".
No Response, sit on your hands and scowl.

Boehner, Cantor, McCain, Smarmy disrespectful fucks. I don't give a fuck how you think of feel on an issue, or a political party you respect the office at the State of the Union. I heard that Boehner actually raised his hand when Obama said, if anyone on the right has a better idea let me know? McCain mouthed the words "blame it on bush" and shook his head when BO was stating fact of the numbers he inherited. Wasn't Mccain Bashing Bush on Campaign trail a year and 1/2 ago or so.
It was Limbaugh who said when bush was in office,that liberals should "shut up, because elections have consequences"
So I say to all the fucks present last night, Right and left, there, if you do not have anything constructive to bring to the table, shut the fuck up, or you can crawl out from under the table, pull out your fucking pacifiers, quit your pouting, wipe your tears off on the shit stained carpet, change your tampon, and show some class. But then again, it is easier to be smarmy and just say no. Then again, Why not, the Nascar, frightened Joe Beer can sheep are following in droves. Don't worry boys, keep those hands warm, you just may get your chance to save the world with all your great ideas that your hiding from all of us in 3 short years.

The Dems have had the better part of the last 3 to save us all. Are we saved?
Respect is earned......Obama has earned NOTHING. Short of standing when the POTUS walks in the room I wouldn't have stood either. One clap for the energy comment.....which I might want to take back when I realize it is all just big FUCKIN LIE.

[Upsetter]

Up...you are avoiding the question. Why after Obama promised to televise the proceedings has he not done it?

Okay, here is the legal answer as to why: he cannot legally force anyone to appear on television, period. Not congress, not any of the industry players, nobody. So, if anyone involved in a particular get together doesnt want to be televised, BO has a choice, either do away with the meeting, or go behind closed doors. It is the same pesky legal theory that doesnt allow you to videotape someone without their permission and then air your conversation, you know, right to privacy and all that jazz. You would get sued and possibly thrown in jail, same goes for the executive, minus the jail part. Not to mention that nobody who might look bad would come within a country mile of him if he was going to force any get together with him or his staff to be aired on tv. Congress can do this via subpoena, but all of those conversations ARE on cspan, but you would know that if you watched it. Would you have congress take the extra step of subpoenaing everyone and forcing them to testify at penalty of perjury or contempt, just so more of it was on cspan? But, I digress, cause we are talking about BO and he cant force congress to abuse its subpoena power either.

So, if an insurance co rep or an AMA rep or a pharma rep says to BO either no cameras or we are done, what would you do, force the issue and blow the whole effort to kingdom come? Or bite the bullet and advance your agenda, even though you cant do things exactly as you would like to, nor as you have promised the public you would try to? My answer would be to see the reality of the situation, and that a pie in the sky promise is not as important as achieving critical reform on an issue that WILL bankrupt govco inside of 20yrs. I would do what needs to be done to get the best results I can for the country.

You now have my explanation and answer. Turnabout is fair play, so my question to you is this: would you have him never make the promise in the first place? never put congress in the uncomfortable position of having to operate behind closed doors despite the president's call to do otherwise, risking his own party's reputation? Or would you have him call them out for what they are, back room dealing, self interested, pork addicted fucks, and work with whatever they give you from there? Are you a coward who would do nothing, a pragmatist/realist who realizes what he can and cant accomplish and tries for the best, or pie in the sky idealist who would cut off your nose to spite your face?

[Upsetter]

As for the other SCJ's look at their faces in the video...tell me they were not disappointed with what Obama said. Do you honestly feel the SOTU address was the place to scold the SC?

I didnt see it, I was cooking dinner at the time, so I wasnt watching closely, mostly listening. And no, I dont feel it was the place to scold the Court, but I think much worse of alito's reaction than BO's call out for the reasons I quoted earlier.

[LTD]

Up...you are avoiding the question. Why after Obama promised to televise the proceedings has he not done it?

Okay, here is the legal answer as to why: he cannot legally force anyone to appear on television, period. Not congress, not any of the industry players, nobody. So, if anyone involved in a particular get together doesnt want to be televised, BO has a choice, either do away with the meeting, or go behind closed doors. It is the same pesky legal theory that doesnt allow you to videotape someone without their permission and then air your conversation, you know, right to privacy and all that jazz. You would get sued and possibly thrown in jail, same goes for the executive, minus the jail part. Not to mention that nobody who might look bad would come within a country mile of him if he was going to force any get together with him or his staff to be aired on tv. Congress can do this via subpoena, but all of those conversations ARE on cspan, but you would know that if you watched it. Would you have congress take the extra step of subpoenaing everyone and forcing them to testify at penalty of perjury or contempt, just so more of it was on cspan? But, I digress, cause we are talking about BO and he cant force congress to abuse its subpoena power either.

So, if an insurance co rep or an AMA rep or a pharma rep says to BO either no cameras or we are done, what would you do, force the issue and blow the whole effort to kingdom come? Or bite the bullet and advance your agenda, even though you cant do things exactly as you would like to, nor as you have promised the public you would try to? My answer would be to see the reality of the situation, and that a pie in the sky promise is not as important as achieving critical reform on an issue that WILL bankrupt govco inside of 20yrs. I would do what needs to be done to get the best results I can for the country.

You now have my explanation and answer. Turnabout is fair play, so my question to you is this: would you have him never make the promise in the first place? He should have NEVER made the promise. No excuses you see...a president is meant to think through even simplest of issues before opening his fat mouth. Granted their have been many other POTUS that have opened their mouths and made promises they can't keep. But when it comes from a man who's platform is partially held up with "accountability" its worse. Broken promises are an epidemic with this guy, really nothing new here just another day in the shoes of a man that should have never been elected POTUS. never put congress in the uncomfortable position of having to operate behind closed doors despite the president's call to do otherwise, risking his own party's reputation? If any party is doing whats best for the country there is NO reason for anyone to feel uncomfortable. Or would you have him call them out for what they are, back room dealing, self interested, pork addicted fucks, and work with whatever they give you from there? Call em out...remember transparency...another leg holding up the platform. Lets put an end to the lobbyists holding America captive. Are you a coward who would do nothing, a pragmatist/realist who realizes what he can and cant accomplish and tries for the best, or pie in the sky idealist who would cut off your nose to spite your face? We need a new start...a new path to travel, not another stroll through the same park where we sit at the same bench and feed the same vultures. Settling for the same routine get us NOTHING. I would prefer to cut my nose in order to get rid of the smell before I sit around with my thumb up my ass. The job can be done without the stink.

Gotta start somewhere...remember all that CHANGE? How about that HOPE? Doing the same thing over and over again is getting us NOWHERE.

[Upsetter]

[I would prefer to cut my nose in order to get rid of the smell before I sit around with my thumb up my ass. The job can be done without the stink. [/color]

Really? Name one prez, this century even, who didnt get quagmired in the reality that is DC. And please dont say Raygun, cause I got a lot of ammo that says he did no such thing. The only ones I can come up with are the Roosevelts, and only because they were risk takers, were belligerent, hard-nosed basterds about getting their way, and werent afraid to pull punches either. Do you think a prez could get away with that sort of behavior in the age of the 24hr news cycle?