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User avatar
By Mattb
#313716
Adams wrote: And the $75M damages cap BP apparently has won't begin to cover the fallout from this.
I'd say that's a bit of an understatement.

From - http://markkiistudios.livejournal.com/24029.html

Best case
the damages from this accident will be in the tens of billions
Worst Case
This spew stoppage takes longer to reach a full closure; the subsequent cleanup may take a decade. The Gulf becomes a damaged sea for a generation. The oil slick leaks beyond the western Florida coast, enters the Gulfstream and reaches the eastern coast of the United States and beyond. Use your imagination for the rest of the damage. Monetary cost is now measured in the many hundreds of billions of dollars.
(emphasis mine)
User avatar
By Muddled Duck
#313719
Gaper's Pimp wrote:
Guess what, both fucking parties suck.
True that, Chaser.

Anyone trying to paint this colossal goatfuck in partisan colors needs to wake the hell up. I run my A/C for 8 months out the year and drive a 4WD crewcab. I'm as much to blame as anyone in Washington.
Amen to that. We need oil, and we need the cheapest oil we can get. This is tragic, and hopefully those in the industry will learn something worthwhile from it since it sure as hell isn't good for them either. Even if you ride a horse and fish from a canoe, oil has a huge impact on your quality of life. Most people have no idea how many items they count on every day are made with oil.
User avatar
By jerome
#313720
Now this just rubs salt in the wounds... What the fuck is wrong with these people?

They make Billions off of raping our NR's, yet lobby against a $500,000 part that could avoid Billions lost and that is just for starters. Even worse is that the people we elected are also profitting in turn letting them do whatever it takes to keep as much money as possible rolling in AT ALL COSTS. It takes a really greedy, short sighted sack of shit to sell out the well being of their kids, grandchildren and so on like these lobbyists and politicians do every day.

I think we should start locking these greedy fuckers up from top to bottom when something like this happens that could have been prevented. Send them to the chair whatever, they gas/fry people for much less, imo. That will get their attention. Find out every elected official that supported them, etc... and at least fine/ impeach them.

I know we need oil etc., but there are steps that can be taken to minimize damage in case of catastrophe. They try to make it sound as if this were a freak accident. Its strange this did not happen when the same rigs got pounded by hurricane after hurricane. Its obvious that BP/Transocean are trying to cover something up.

When you let the biggest, greediest industries in the world run wild in your backyard..... don't expect them not to shit in it. 2 or 3 more "accidents" in this country and we are really fucked. We have killed and let the rest of the world kill our oceans after they raped and killed their own.
From another "expert" on FoxNews last night:

A device used around the globe on rigs, which prevents spewage like this one was lobbied against in Congress by the oil lobby, and therefore not a requirement when drilling over here. The mechanism costs an additional $500,000 and is used by every other nation.
User avatar
By VTNZ
#313722
I hope I'm right here, but I think the 75 million $ cap for BP is a limit for a fine, not a limit on how much they're on the hook for in clean-up, compensation, repayment to the gov't.,etc.
No surpise BP passes the buck to the Deepwater. But ya know, I kinda look at it this way on that: if you bought a pfd for your clients in the drift boat, and they used them (correctly) when they got knocked out of the boat but they still drowned due to a faulty pfd design (patagonia in fact had a recall of one of the pfd's a couple years back)...who's fault for the drowning? The guide and his boat; or, the pfd company which was/is considered the life saving device, but had a design flaw? And no, the guide took no undue risk, they drowned in a deep, slow section, and the guy just stumbled and fell out.
Bottom line, they both will pay. Oil companies I suspect like to have lots of subcontracters in the production process. It always seems to me that the only infrastructure that a BP or Mobil actually own is research vessels, and refining facilities. Since they know it's their oil, and they have to clean it up, they remove the accountability (or risk of taking actual blame for fuck-up) by having A+B+C+D= BP finished product. Yet, they don't own parts b,c, or d.
From Red to Ty, and everyone inbetween, I'm hoping for the least damaging situation (I know it still sucks)....
User avatar
By Crick Addict
#313723
This reads like sarcasm, but In all honesty....I mean really....the oil companies do not give two shits about
the environment, and they never will. The impact of the spill is already moot
to them. Yeah, someone will lose their job, and the fines will be
stiff, but as long as there is supply and demand...well you know the
rest.
User avatar
By Smithhammer
#313724
Adams wrote: And the $75M damages cap BP apparently has won't begin to cover the fallout from this.
So....what exactly does BP chief executive Tony Hayward mean when he says BP will, "absolutely be paying for the cleanup operation." Does it mean that they will go above and beyond the $75 million cap? It better, but since they're already trying to spread the blame around, it doesn't seem likely.
Muddled Duck wrote: Amen to that. We need oil, and we need the cheapest oil we can get. This is tragic, and hopefully those in the industry will learn something worthwhile from it since it sure as hell isn't good for them either. Even if you ride a horse and fish from a canoe, oil has a huge impact on your quality of life. Most people have no idea how many items they count on every day are made with oil.
True. Your vehicle choice is only one small part of the equation. Take a look around your kitchen, for example, and inventory the number of things in it that wouldn't be there without cheap oil. But I would hope that this also underscores that ramping up domestic oil production is only a short-term solution for real energy independence. We've got to work hard to develop alternatives that don't court this sort of wide-spread disaster as a potential by-product, or this will just continue to happen. We can't continue to sustain disasters like this - not ecologically, nor economically.
Last edited by Smithhammer on Mon May 03, 2010 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By jerome
#313725
Muddled Duck wrote:
Gaper's Pimp wrote:
Guess what, both fucking parties suck.
True that, Chaser.

Anyone trying to paint this colossal goatfuck in partisan colors needs to wake the hell up. I run my A/C for 8 months out the year and drive a 4WD crewcab. I'm as much to blame as anyone in Washington.
Amen to that. We need oil, and we need the cheapest oil we can get. This is tragic, and hopefully those in the industry will learn something worthwhile from it since it sure as hell isn't good for them either. Even if you ride a horse and fish from a canoe, oil has a huge impact on your quality of life. Most people have no idea how many items they count on every day are made with oil.
Well, No shit.... you don't say. How about stating the obvious, again.

It has nothing to do with cheap anything. All this bullshit about oil being scarce, blah,blah,blah is all bullshit. Its all about the who can make the most money and how.

There are plenty of alternatives, some better and cheaper than petro, but there are not enough important people standing to profit. The U.S also has to be P.C and keep the rest of the world, especially the middle east rich and happy, in turn using the money to wage war on us.... but thats ok, thats what makes them happy.

This is just the beginning. All the looking the other way, whoring out the land and sea to the highest bidder, etc. is coming back to bite us in the ass and there is nothing that can be done. Oil industry has this nation by the balls, mining is right behind it...and thats how they wanted it.

It only costs a small percentage of their profits to do things the right way, most intelligent people would gladly pay extra for this to happen. It wont though and we will continue to pay whatever they ask. Why in the hell would anyone think a foreign company in an international market would give a shit about fucking up the land/water when they don't really have to answer to anyone, are encouraged to cut corners, and have been allowed to do whatever for so long???

Our politicians sold us out, plain and simple...... and now we pay for it and deal with the consequences, while they shop for vacation homes uneffected by oil/mining. It has nothing to do with cheap. Our leaders not only failed us, but sold us out.
User avatar
By DeShootnestGent'man
#313726
VTNZ wrote:I hope I'm right here, but I think the 75 million $ cap for BP is a limit for a fine, not a limit on how much they're on the hook for in clean-up, compensation, repayment to the gov't.,etc.
No surpise BP passes the buck to the Deepwater. But ya know, I kinda look at it this way on that: if you bought a pfd for your clients in the drift boat, and they used them (correctly) when they got knocked out of the boat but they still drowned due to a faulty pfd design (patagonia in fact had a recall of one of the pfd's a couple years back)...who's fault for the drowning? The guide and his boat; or, the pfd company which was/is considered the life saving device, but had a design flaw? And no, the guide took no undue risk, they drowned in a deep, slow section, and the guy just stumbled and fell out.
Bottom line, they both will pay. Oil companies I suspect like to have lots of subcontracters in the production process. It always seems to me that the only infrastructure that a BP or Mobil actually own is research vessels, and refining facilities. Since they know it's their oil, and they have to clean it up, they remove the accountability (or risk of taking actual blame for fuck-up) by having A+B+C+D= BP finished product. Yet, they don't own parts b,c, or d.
From Red to Ty, and everyone inbetween, I'm hoping for the least damaging situation (I know it still sucks)....
Very well put. BP would not have knowingly allowed this. It's going to crush them. I'm not trying to defend them, but really, I'd say this is just a terrible accident that unfortunately is going to have catastrophic results. I don't think the focus should be on accountability right now, but rather every available measure to quell the flow. I will add though, what Jerome said about the 500k safety device is frightening, especially if other OPEC members are required to have it in place.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#313728
$500k sounds high for one part, but consider this-
Before the accident, Deepwater Horizon worked on BP's Mississippi Canyon Block 252, referred to as the Macondo prospect.[2] The rig was last located 50 miles (80 km) off the southeast coast of Louisiana.[7] In October 2009, BP extended the contract for Deepwater Horizon by three years, to begin in September 2010.[8] The lease contract was worth US$544 million, a rate of $496,800 per day.
One day's worth of rental cost added on was the sticking point? WTF?

(sidebar, Hyundai built the rig itself, seems odd that we've not heard them called out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon)

Sounds iffy, but Darth Vader may truly have played some role in coating the Gulf Coast with the dark side- http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... dickcheney
User avatar
By Adams
#313729
Smithhammer wrote:
Adams wrote: And the $75M damages cap BP apparently has won't begin to cover the fallout from this.
So....what exactly does BP chief executive Tony Hayward mean when he says BP will, "absolutely be paying for the cleanup operation." Does it mean that they will go above and beyond the $75 million cap? It better, but since they're already trying to spread the blame around, it doesn't seem likely.
They're on teh hook for the cleanup, apart from the damages cap.

My understanding is the $75M cap applies to damages claims by third parties, and does not apply to the costs to clean up the spill. I've got to pull the underlying statute and take a look at it. I've only read how others have characterized the liability cap.
User avatar
By jerome
#313735
Junior© wrote:
jerome wrote:There are plenty of alternatives, some better and cheaper than petro
Really? Can you send me the investment memorandum?

jr.
Hemp for starters....

Politics,All those politicians with a stake in oil, Greed are the only reason we are stuck with what we have now.

All common sense and coherent logic would tell the average person that a renewable, less ecological source would be far better than petro in so many instances. There is too much wealth and political pull tied into Oil, so not only have alternatives been ignored but also rallied against by those standing to lose money and those getting kick backs from big oil and auto ind.

Hemp would not be the end all... but would help immensely. It can be grown and used without any THC content, yet its illegal.Hmmm, I wonder why?
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