DID ANYONE NOTICE

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LTD
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by LTD » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:09 am

No doubt there are bigger things to be concerned with (health care), don't get lost in the drivel....Obamas comment is most disturbing when you look at the big picture. It's not about the cop. Just sayin......
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

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LTD
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by LTD » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:10 am

Plow wrote:Found the AP story on MSNBC – shows you what kind of weight it carries.
From the story -
She does not mention the race of the men until pressed by a dispatcher to describe them.
"Um, well, there were two larger men," Whalen says. "One looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure. And the other one entered and I didn't see what he looked like at all. I just saw it from a distance and this older woman was worried, thinking, 'Someone's been breaking in someone's house. They've been barging in.'"
I got to go on record as saying I think it’s OK to mention race of suspicious folks when reporting something to the police. I don’t see any racism there and don’t understand all the fuss.

What was Crowley told in his call to respond? Was he told “black”, “possibly Hispanic” or nothing on race? That would be good.

On the surface there doesn’t seem to be any reason for Crowley to report “black” in his report (that we know of). My best guess is he made a mistake especially since several black officers have come to his defense including one who was there. He seems like a stand up guy and if there was any reason to think otherwise he already be demonized by the left and not on his way for a beer.

Bottom line is Gates acted the fool (aka acted stupidly) and got his ass hauled off to jail. Happens every day to dumb-asses of all colors all over this country.

Time for the left to fess up - they got racist and fools in their bunch too.
Yep! X2
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by ditchdoc » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:15 pm

I have been following these threads for several days now. I know that earlier I said I was going to stay off of the political chat. well, I'm tired of some around here intimating that supporters of Pres. Obama are, somehow, pussies, idiots or uninformed for not posting up here. You will think whatever you want--regardless of whether any of us post or not.

I will make a few points and then shut up.

1. Whether Prof. Gates called the cop racist or not, when the Officer found out that Prof. Gates was rightfully in his own home, and there was no burglary in progress--that should have been the end of it. He should have said thanks for your cooperation and LEFT.

2. The fact that the Professor did not chose to kiss the officers ass is irrelevant. If the officer cannot handle being called names, he belongs in another line of work. Peace officers must show extraordinary restraint when dealing with the public. Verbal abuse is par for the coarse. Physical assault is another matter entirely. We are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Hell, most anyone would be pissed to be ordered out of his own house, when he knows he has done nothing wrong. If the police can order any citizen around with impunity, we are truly in a police state.

3. President Obama did not call anyone a racist. He stated his opinion that he thought the police acted stupidly. I agree.

4. Police officers have a thankless job. No question. I wouldn't want to be one. In this particular case, I think the Officer used poor judgment. Maybe he was having a bad day. It happens. Maybe Mr. gates was having a bad day. The police officer is the one who HAS to be under self-control. He is a PEACE officer.
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by SOBF » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:39 pm

Why does something "Have to done" about health care ? Seems like it works pretty well to me . Expensive but well.

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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by LTD » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:18 pm

ditchdoc wrote:I have been following these threads for several days now. I know that earlier I said I was going to stay off of the political chat. well, I'm tired of some around here intimating that supporters of Pres. Obama are, somehow, pussies, idiots or uninformed for not posting up here. You will think whatever you want--regardless of whether any of us post or not. Ditch, I know this was directed at me so I will respond directly to you. I not insinuating that Obama supporters are pussies, idiots, or uninformed. I found it interesting that Obama supporters are vocal and quick to post and praise when he does something positive, but are NOWHERE to be found when he pulls his little stunts that cannot be defended. Like I said...Crickets. I enjoy different perspectives and have learned some things from your posts as well as others and I appreciate that. Although we don't agree on everything, there are certainly things we do agree on and have in common. It's not all bad. No one wants you or anyone else here to shut up. I personally enjoy your posts.

I will make a few points and then shut up.

1. Whether Prof. Gates called the cop racist or not, when the Officer found out that Prof. Gates was rightfully in his own home, and there was no burglary in progress--that should have been the end of it. He should have said thanks for your cooperation and LEFT. Doesn't appear he cooperated initially. And Gates apparently followed the officer out of the house when the officer asked him to step outside, continued to make a scene, and was ultimately arrested for those actions. Not the actions in the house which also seem to be a little out of line but NOT illegal because he was IN his house. Outside is an entirely different story. If Gates hadn't thrown a race-baiting hissy fit, he'd have avoided the black and white taxi ride and photo session. The officer wasn't trying to harass the moron and if he'd have canned all the "this be what happens when cops find a black man" and "I'll talk to yo Momma" crap, it would have been a much more pleasant night for everyone concerned.

2. The fact that the Professor did not chose to kiss the officers ass is irrelevant. If the officer cannot handle being called names, he belongs in another line of work. Peace officers must show extraordinary restraint when dealing with the public. Verbal abuse is par for the coarse. Physical assault is another matter entirely. We are INNOCENT until proven guilty. Hell, most anyone would be pissed to be ordered out of his own house, when he knows he has done nothing wrong. If the police can order any citizen around with impunity, we are truly in a police state. You have chosen to cloud the facts Ditch.....read the reports as well as the witness statements that say Gates was the one doing ALL the yelling and that the officers did indeed show quite a bit of restraint. He was not ordered he was asked. Gates had a choice to stay in his house at that point. You know damn well he knew that being a professor and all.

3. President Obama did not call anyone a racist. He stated his opinion that he thought the police acted stupidly. I agree. Who said he did.....I must have missed something. Please point out where/who made that statement please.

4. Police officers have a thankless job. No question. I wouldn't want to be one. In this particular case, I think the Officer used poor judgment. Maybe he was having a bad day. It happens. Maybe Mr. gates was having a bad day. The police officer is the one who HAS to be under self-control. He is a PEACE officer.
Where and at what point does the officer get out of control Ditch? It appears as if he had pretty good control if you read the statements and listen to the tapes.

Ditch...stick around man.
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

http://www.keywesttarponguides.com

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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by Mattb » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:06 pm

SOBF wrote:Why does something "Have to done" about health care ? Seems like it works pretty well to me . Expensive but well.
SOBF - I'm guessing you have coverage through your employer, and you've never been seriously ill.

I'm lucky enough to have never been seriously ill, but I switched jobs a few years back and I now work for a company with less than 5 employees - needless to say, they don't provide health insurance. Before the move, I would've said much the same thing as you.

I'm a young, single guy - health insurance that's not quite as good as, but is in the same ballpark as what I used to get from my employer would be $800 a month. That's beyond expensive, that's a fucking mortgage payment. I'm a "responsible adult", so I still have insurance, but I could buy a new small car with my deductible, and the insurance really doesn't cover much of anything - there's little doubt that I would have to declare bankruptcy if I were ever to get seriously ill.

Of course, even if you do have coverage through your employer, what happens if you get sick enough so that you can no longer work and lose your job. If your health insurance is connected to your employment, then you're in a world of shit. When I left corporate Ameraica, the COBRA option I was presented with was $1300/month (remember now, this is something that only becomes available when you've lost your job).

Now, even if you don't give a shit about any of this stuff, you need to consider that on a per capita basis, US Health Insurance runs an average of $6500 per person per year more than other developed countries. That's $6500/year/person - for the current population of the US, that's almost 2 trillion (yes, with a T) dollars a year. That wouldn't be such a bad thing if the extra money was buying better care, but it isn't. On the whole, US life expectancy is lower than many other countries, and by almost any other measure you can dream up, the US does worse (in some cases much worse) than countries that spend far less than us.

Yes, you might have decent health care now through your employer (unless you've got more wonga than Shunned, you don't have good care purchased on the private market) but what happens in 5 years, when the cost has skyrocketed even further and your employer decides to stop providing coverage. Take out a second loan on the house to keep up with the COBRA payments?
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by West Chester » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Etna provides decent plans for under $300 w/ dental per month
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by Mattb » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:19 pm

West Chester wrote:Etna provides decent plans for under $300 w/ dental per month
Not in Maine, they don't, which is yet another facet of our broken system.
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
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West Chester
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by West Chester » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:53 pm

OK then... perfect business opportunity for you to open a health insurance company.
If said posting of nude women includes her holding fish AND a large set of antlers (Non-photoshopped), then it can stay. Otherwise, No nudity on the Drake board. Skimpy? OK. Side-boob? Approved. -nemo

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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by Mattb » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:26 pm

West Chester wrote:OK then... perfect business opportunity for you to open a health insurance company.
Riiiight. Right after I finish opening a cable TV company and a phone company- both of which would be easier that starting a health ins. company.

FWIW, the justice department considers the insurance market in Maine, and many other states, to be "Highly Concentrated" - it's more or less a Monopoly. Google Herfindahl-Hirschman Index or check out http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guideli ... ok/15.html for more info.
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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by Rhyacophila » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:46 pm

West Chester wrote:Etna provides decent plans for under $300 w/ dental per month
Not in Massassachewsits
I guess being fat and ugly isn't enough for the powder monkey - hes got to be an asshole too. (RvW)

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Re: DID ANYONE NOTICE

Post by ditchdoc » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:24 pm

My points revolve around the basic belief that citizens, no matter who they are or where they reside, have the right to be secure in their homes. By secure, I mean the right to protect themselves from crime AND undue harassment by the police. Let's be honest here: Did Professor Gates do anything wrong, at all, prior to the police showing up? Answer: No. He was entering his own home. What was the police involvement? They received a, somewhat, iffy report of a possible break-in occurring at the residence, and responded correctly to the scene. I'm quite sure the Cambridge police have computers in their cars, and prior to arrival on scene, knew who owned the house and who lived there. I live in a comparatively small Kansas town and our police have this technology. So, the responding officer knew the identity of the owner and through DMV probably even had his photo. Once Mr. Gates presented his ID this incident should have been OVER. Repeat. OVER. There was no further need for police involvement.

I did not grow up as a black man, but I have an imagination. It doesn't take much of one, if you read history and the news, to get some idea of what it must be like. What I do know is this: If I had busted my ass, worked my way through college, done all the right things, attained the stature, respect and notoriety in my community and career, and STILL found myself arrested and handcuffed, in my own home, for the crime of VOCALLY demonstrating my outrage, I too would be raising bloody fucking hell. Again, let's be honest. Has every time you've had interactions with the police been a positive one? Have you ever found officers to be over-bearing or just plain rude? I'm not saying all cops are bad. And I'm not even saying this particular officer was necessarily bad. I'm just saying that he was, or should have been, the one in control of the situation. Mr. Gates was not-- once the police showed up. The charges were something like "unruly conduct." Well, hell, the guy is like five-foot-three, is elderly and walks with a freaking cane, for crissakes. So, do you think Mr. Gates should have said "Yessuh, massah, I'ze wrong. I be a good ole' boy from now on. I be lettin' evyone know when I'ze commin home so ya'll won't think Ize a burglah. Please doan trow me in jail massah." Really?

I still say this was stupid. Let's hope this blows away soon. There are so many other problems.

PS LTD, my previous post was not directed at you in particular. There are others with whom I do not always agree. But that is what makes this place so much fun. I'M an equal-opportunity-joke-you-if-you-can't-take-a-fuck-opinionated-asshole. So there. Nyah!

.
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