User avatar
By peetso
#644156
fallen513 wrote:Would you guys make your fuckin' minds up! I'm about to dump a quart of 10W-30 down the storm drain. Who do I call?
Just drink it, you pussy.
User avatar
By SLSS
#644157
peetso wrote:
Transylwader wrote: Don, I am all for the state agencies. I enjoy working with the guys n gals down at DWQ, NCDEQ. They run a tight ship. I am just gob smacked how a huge Multi-Billion dollar corporation such as Dook Energy get to laugh about a destroyed river system because EPA won't hold them accountable.
Seems to me then that everyone should be arguing for giving the EPA more teeth, more autonomy to enforce infractions on larger corporations, as opposed to arguing for the abolishment of the agency.


"Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one." - Sam Rayburn
Politicians have been underfunding and interfering with federal agencies for years, then bitching about their incompetence/ineffectiveness/corruption. Are federal agencies always excellent? Of course not, but there has been a two sided agenda for years of 1- trying to eliminate almost any oversight, B- getting private access to nearly any pool of federal revenue (privatize Social Security, etc).

Privatizing the military and making healthcare for profit seems to be benefitting stockholders, and delivering everyone else less than.

Willi's right. The idea that industry will oversee itself. And back int eh 60's and 70's when it was really bad, corporations supposedly had the responsibility to be a good citizen. With that responsibility out the window, it will be worse.

And Tranny, yes, the orange river was a complete clusterfuck. But the EPA didn't create the problem, and it wasn't going to fix itself. Tougher regulations and rules to begin with, and effective enforcement of them, would seem to be the way to avoid that. Or like a lot of stuff, maybe we just leave it in the ground. Do we need it, or does somebody just want to make a profit on it?
User avatar
By D-nymph
#644166
peetso wrote:
Transylwader wrote: Don, I am all for the state agencies. I enjoy working with the guys n gals down at DWQ, NCDEQ. They run a tight ship. I am just gob smacked how a huge Multi-Billion dollar corporation such as Dook Energy get to laugh about a destroyed river system because EPA won't hold them accountable.
Seems to me then that everyone should be arguing for giving the EPA more teeth, more autonomy to enforce infractions on larger corporations, as opposed to arguing for the abolishment of the agency.

no?
Yes.
User avatar
By T.J. Brayshaw
#644179
Currently, as far as I can tell none of us can read the text of the bill. So maybe it will say "Abolish the EPA and replace it with this much better thing." That's why I said it's something to keep an eye on.

If "this much better thing" turns out not to be better, then we have to decide whether the EPA, warts and all, is better than no EPA at all.

It's pretty hard for me to imagine how no EPA at all is better (and really, hard for me to imagine how this bunch will come up with something better to replace it), but I haven't called my representatives on this one yet. I'm waiting to see the text of the bill.
User avatar
By fallen513
#644211
T.J. Brayshaw wrote:Currently, as far as I can tell none of us can read the text of the bill.

Now hold on a mninute. Are you sayin' we don't read good?
User avatar
By B.M. Barrelcooker
#644221
fallen513 wrote:If somebody's gonna die from lead poisoning I want it to be my neighbors kids goddamint.
Move to Flint.
User avatar
By B.M. Barrelcooker
#644223
Willi wrote:I'm old enough to remember the days before the Clean Water/Air Acts. The air in our major cities rivaled that in China's cities today. Many of our streams, rivers and lakes were sewers. Lake Erie was essentially dead and the other Great Lakes were following. A major river was so polluted it actually caught fire. The creeks where I grew up had piles of foam higher than my head floating down and were so polluted that even carp couldn't live in them. Now they hold gamefish. Today the Great Lakes are excellent fisheries, there are many thousands more miles of streams and rivers that support gamefish, our air is breathable etc etc etc The EPA isn't perfect, but it sure is better than corporate self regulation.

Willi
Hey willi. I can remember too. I come from an area that was decimated by large scale strip mines for most of a century. I've also seen some of what the Agencies ( not just EPA but also mines and minerals etc ) consider acceptable reclamation. . It baffles me that " pre-law " areas that weren't reclaimed have recovered amazingly and are full of diverse flora fauna and species and things that were reclaimed large scale according to specifications are moonscape monocultures. I'm not really on one side of this argument or the other .

We are definitely far better off with the clean water and clean air acts and without an overburdensom cost to any of us personally.
I just have a general distrust of bearacracies much like my distrust of large corporations.

I think it's important that we all make decisions thoughtfully and despite the inconvenience sometimes ...vote with our dollars and only support business that act responsibly.

If we continue to buy from irresponsible outfits we are only encouraging their practices. That doesn't just apply here but anywhere in the world. After all we all live downstream.

Peace
User avatar
By Bruiser
#644227
You have to put your faith in something BM. I think you know that. I'd say pick your side, it's pretty simple. One side wants no rules or protections, the other side is the EPA. Pick your side.
User avatar
By peetso
#644231
[quote="Bruiser"]You have to put your faith in something BM. I think you know that. I'd say pick your side, it's pretty simple. One side wants no rules or protections, the other side is the EPA. Pick your side.[/quote]




By Eider
#644308
Would you guys make your fuckin' minds up! I'm about to dump a quart of 10W-30 down the storm drain. Who do I call?
Depends on where your storm drain empties.

If into a navigable waterway via surface flow, the Secretary of the Army issues permits (CWA Section 404d). Enforcement and penalties are described in Section 311 and you'll have to answer to the EPA, the ACOE or both. Interestingly, the EPA is responsible for studying the effect of your oil dumping on water quality and aquatic life as stated in Section 104(m)(1).

If your storm drain empties into an isolated wetland (i.e., not directly connected to a navigable waterway via surface flow) then its still up to debate who you should call. The Supreme Court didn't come to a majority opinion in Rapanos v. United States , so I guess it's an open question subject to some complex legalese.

Or, at least that's how I understand it.
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