Where is the Afghan war?

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Upsetter
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:19 am

The Volfish wrote:The LAST thing you could call him is insubordinate.
I dunno, the guy has been at the center of several major military fiascos both in his roles in iraq and afghanistan. While I think he is a VERY effective field commander, actually on the ground with his troops, in iraq, he was also at the heart of the tillman debacle, he was responsible for one of the publicized detainee horror shows, and now in his role in afghanistan he has twice undermined civilian control of the military.

The thing is, as the afghan commander, he was listened too, he got all that he wanted and BO was still on board with his strategy. COIN as its called, is his baby, so however its being implemented is his problem to deal with. Doesnt sound like the troops on the ground like it very much. If you read the whole RS article, a bunch of it was dedicated to his interaction with a company that had just lost a guy to an IED they felt shouldnt have been there except for the edicts coming down from McCrystal about ROE.

Seems to me that things werent going well for the general, or his counter-insurgency strategy, esp. with the people who mattered most to him, his troops. He may very well have intentionally made the incendiary comments so as to go out with a bang, rather than a quiet whimper.

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The Volfish
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by The Volfish » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:34 am

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

Insubordination is being mis-applied.

I happen to think he may be guilty of contempt, but to assert that he's gotten everything he's requested is inaccurate.

ROE is dictated based upon the wishes of civilians in D.C.
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by flybug.pa. » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:45 am

ANYBODY have a good link to what goes on newswise in afgan. on a daily basis? As Blumpkin stated when he started this thead where is the war, you don't hear shit about it anymore :coffee
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by LTD » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:09 pm

flybug.pa. wrote:ANYBODY have a good link to what goes on newswise in afgan. on a daily basis? As Blumpkin stated when he started this thead where is the war, you don't hear shit about it anymore :coffee
Seems our Washington corruption is more important. When our news is running a story on how the CEO of BP's day on the water went...it's pathetic. Meanwhile....our troops are dieing. BS...that war should be in the mainstream news EVERYDAY. Guess its all about $$$$$$$$. :bomb
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:53 pm

The Volfish wrote:Article 88—Contempt toward officials

Insubordination is being mis-applied.

I happen to think he may be guilty of contempt, but to assert that he's gotten everything he's requested is inaccurate.

ROE is dictated based upon the wishes of civilians in D.C.
An ex-marine and current prosecutor on another bb seems to think his behavior constitutes insubordination under the UCMJ. Im just echoing his thoughts really. I have no idea personally. Im sure there is room for disagreement on this point.

If the RS article is worth its salt, mccrystal asked for 40k troops and got 30k, with more on their way, and has effectively positioned himself as the man who dictates the ROE based on his COIN strategy. COIN was military born during GW's admin, most of its supporters are military brass, including mccrystal, and it necessitates ROE that attempt to minimize civilian casualties. Mccrystal himself said that for every civilian killed, they should assume they just create 10 more enemy combatants. Moreover, mccrystal has been the guy interfacing with karzai, not the civilian guys, dealing with karzai's repeated complaints about civilian casualties directly.

Again, unless the article misstated the reality, mccrystal has been the one issuing the orders for ROE in response to realities on the ground and pleas from Karzai...although the article did imply that the internal military grapevine was largely misconstruing his cerebral ROE, balancing the need for deadly force with the costs associated on a case by case basis, into more clear cut on the ground ROE that the grunts can actually process, leaving a lot of room for misjudgment. It was this grapevine, mccrystal tried to explain to the company that lost a guy to an ied, that led to a direct order by the company commander to not raize a house that housed the device.

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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by BigCliff » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:54 pm

LTD wrote:It's likely we will NEVER know the real reasons as to why MCC choose to revel his true feelings through RS.!
Bud Light Lime was involved. Its a shame that it wasn't even a decent beer that got him going.

I heard on NPR that the RS reporter was originally supposed to be around the general for one day, but due to the volcano in Iceland, he ended up being there a month. So what was likely supposed to be a "day-in-the-life" piece ended up being a "month-in-the-life instead". A ret col. commented that McC's PR people probably originally expected a puff piece, but ended up getting careless with their words over the course of a month. I suppose it can also be said that "loose lips sink generals".
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by flybug.pa. » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:00 pm

he did his best, i blame washington for fucking this up. anybody have dibs on what the next commander will bring us?
pete the clammer :coffee
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by Upsetter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:19 pm

flybug.pa. wrote:he did his best, i blame washington for fucking this up. anybody have dibs on what the next commander will bring us?
pete the clammer :coffee
Not sure, but I can tell you the next commander is.....Patreaus, he got demoted. Sounds like more of the same COIN strategy under the guy who gave it wings in the first place.

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LTD
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by LTD » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:24 pm

Lets all just hope troop moral remains high and additional lives are not lost due to the change in command.
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by LTD » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:46 pm

This country would have been better served had Obama and McC worked out their differences in private today with the general keeping his command after a good tongue lashing from the pres and an apology. After that they should have appeared on the balcony of the oval office, toasting Bud Light Lime to the cameras after a group hug.
This country is in desperate need of people willing to work together to get us back on track. There is too much shit going on right now. Watching the CIC and his generals bickering and posturing for political victories while the American people are being beaten down economically is fucking sad. All while our troops remain in harms way. :bomb

This guy just continues to tear down the very foundation that's meant to support this great nation. :vomit
"At some point reasonable people have to accept certain changes our presence has brought about, learn to not make similar mistakes in the future and appreciate and enjoy what we have while lamenting what we've lost"~~~~~ Muddled Duck

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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by Mattb » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:18 pm

LTD wrote:This country would have been better served had Obama and McC worked out their differences in private today with the general keeping his command after a good tongue lashing from the pres and an apology. but instead McChrystal decided to air his dirty laundry in public and left Obama no choice but to fire him
There, fixed that for you.
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Re: Where is the Afghan war?

Post by SOBF » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:24 pm

This country would have been better served had Obama and McC worked out their differences in private today with the general keeping his command after a good tongue lashing from the pres and an apology. but instead McChrystal decided to air his dirty laundry in public and left Obama no choice but to fire him
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I have to agree with Matt. I can shit on BO all day ,but a General cannot shit on his CIC...even if he believes what he is saying..

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