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By MTgrayling
#605859
Upsetter wrote:
MTgrayling wrote:The attendance records at his (Sanders') rallies cannot be ignored.
One gets serious attendance boosts at one's rally when the majority of one's constituency doesnt work, barely work, or just work when they want to....by choice. They have all the time in the world to spend chasing ole bernie around. He's their top contender for picking everyone ele's pocket to fund their chosen "alternative lifestyles".
Stereotype much?

That's a generalization that the media and right wing is happy to play up and I'm not sure it has any base in reality. The people attending his rallies are fed up Americans of every persuasion.

Just who's pockets are being picked is also debatable. If you turn your head slightly it is very easy to see the corporate executives picking the proletarian pockets to fund their lavish gated lifestyles.

The stagnant wages at the bottom and exponential raiding at the top should be easy enough for all to see clearly, but wedge issues and selfishness/greed pervade.

Perspective my man. It's all in the perspective.
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By Upsetter
#605865
MTgrayling wrote:If you turn your head slightly it is very easy to see the corporate executives picking the proletarian pockets to fund their lavish gated lifestyles.
Dont disagree with this in the least.
MTgrayling wrote:The stagnant wages at the bottom and exponential raiding at the top should be easy enough for all to see clearly, but wedge issues and selfishness/greed pervade.
I agree. And so we have the minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc. Interestingly, one of the worst, Ken Langone, as well as many others, are starting to get it:
I’M scared. The billionaire hedge funder Paul Tudor Jones is scared. My friend Ken Langone, a founder of the Home Depot, is scared. So are many other chief executives. Not of Al Qaeda, or the vicious Islamic State or some other evolving radical group from the Middle East, Africa or Asia. We are afraid where income inequality will lead.

For the top 20 percent of Americans, life is pretty good.

But 40 percent are broke. Every year they spend more than they have.

While so many people are struggling, even those on the higher end of the middle class have relatively little after paying the bills: on average, some $1,300 a month. One leaky roof and they’re in trouble.

If inequality is not addressed, the income gap will most likely be resolved in one of two ways: by major social unrest or through oppressive taxes, such as the 80 percent tax rate on income over $500,000 suggested by Thomas Piketty, the French economist and author of the best-selling book “Capital in the Twenty-First Century.”

We are creating a caste system from which it’s almost impossible to escape, except for the few with exceptional brains, athletic skills or luck. That’s why I’m scared. We risk losing the capitalist engine that brought us great economic success and our way of life.

Ken Langone and I both feel very grateful to this country, and we have been meeting with chief executives, trying to get action on inequality.

This country has given me remarkable opportunities. I am an off-the-boat immigrant, having arrived in the United States as a teenager from Romania in 1954. I had been separated from my parents when I was 7 because they had traveled to the United States and could not return to Romania when it was taken over by the Soviet Union. When I was about 10 I was placed in a hard-labor camp along with my 15-year-old brother. With the help of the American people and the intervention of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, we were reunited with our parents after five years in the camp. Through kindness and compassion, I was invited by the headmaster of Phillips Exeter Academy to attend his school. From there I went to Princeton and the Stanford Business School.

During more than 50 years in the marketing, advertising and public relations business, I was helped by many kind people to fulfill the American dream.

Ken Langone was the first in his family to finish high school and attend college. His grandfather made a living in Italy with his hands. He has been successful in business as well as in philanthropy. New York University Hospital became the NYU Langone Medical Center.

Would young people like Ken and me get those opportunities now? I don’t think so.

Who will be courageous enough to start the ball rolling? The most obvious choice is our government. But the current Congress has been paralyzed.

We business leaders know what to do. But do we have the will to do it? Are we willing to control the excessive greed so prevalent in our culture today and divert resources to better education and the creation of more opportunity?

Business has the most to gain from a healthy America, and the most to lose by social unrest or punitive taxation. Business can start the process in two steps. First, invest in the actual value creators — the employees. Start compensating fairly, by which I mean a wage that enables employees to share amply in productivity increases and creative innovations.

The fact that real wages have been flat for about four decades, while productivity has increased by 80 percent, shows that has not been happening. Before the early 1970s, wages and productivity were both rising. Now most gains from productivity go to shareholders, not employees.

Second, businesses must invest aggressively in their own operations, directing profit into productivity and innovation to boost real business performance. Today, too many corporations reduce investment in research and development and brand building. As a result, we see a general decline in the value of their brands and other assets. To make up for those declines and for anemic revenues, businesses buy back their stock (now at record levels) and thus artificially boost earnings per share.

Someone must break the ice; someone must lead. Companies including Home Depot, Costco Wholesale, Whole Foods, Publix, Qualcomm, Starbucks and Gravity Payments are taking small steps, and compensating employees more. These are the green shoots we need. Similar changes must be made by many more businesses.

As Ken and I talk to business leaders and try to drum up support for our cause, we find almost unanimous agreement on the nature of the problem and the urgent need for solutions. That’s the good news. Our concern is action. We have been told by chief executives that to pay employees more fairly, they need more support from their boards, from prominent business leaders, from the media and even from the government, to combat the intense market pressure to maximize short-term shareholder returns.

So while we celebrate those who do the right thing, how can we move more businesses and chief executives to act now? We really don’t want civil unrest or an 80 percent tax rate to jar us into action.

There is a way to start. Government can provide tax incentives to business to pay more to employees making $80,000 or less. The program would exist for three to five years and then be evaluated for effectiveness.

The benefits would be huge. People would have more money to spend, and many would no longer need government help. That would mean a reduction in entitlements.

Finally, that other America, the one that hasn’t been able to climb out of debt, will know that help is coming — not as an increase in government support, but as a fairer way to share in the hard work and incremental value a business generates. As has been proved again and again, shareholders also win, because satisfied employees produce better results.

Is this idea simply pie in the sky? Not really. Senator Mark R. Warner, Democrat of Virginia, is working on a somewhat similar bipartisan plan to introduce in Congress. I don’t know yet what it would cost. But not acting would be far more costly. The urgency is clear. A fair and responsible free enterprise system is still the best engine ever invented to create opportunity and a higher standard of living.

Author PETER GEORGESCU is the chairman emeritus of Young & Rubicam, who is at work on a book about the death of the middle class.
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By VTNZ
#605882
Spot on again MTG....

Yea....20 odd thousand at a WEEKEND rally....all poors and slackers and commies....

....cuz afterall, we all talk up the notion of voting to make it count....yet in some weird world, one cannot do what they want with their time and attend a rally for a cause they support....because folks going to rallies are non working slackers?

How do you take the day off of work to vote in November?

Nah....fuck the participatory democracy....stay at school and get that 6 figure debt! Stay at your underpaid job and for fucksakes....just watch the TV....it'll tell you all about everythin' you need to know...Sanders,etc.

Bet Upsettah doesn't realize Bernie has a great record with Ammosexuals...and thats actually a fact....as opposed to a fux press release.
User avatar
By Upsetter
#605887
VTNZ wrote:How do you take the day off of work to vote in November?
I vote early, by mail. I dont have time to stand in line and visit the ballot box. Which also means I never miss any of our local special elections for mill levies and such, or our open primaries, and nominating the best repub is often more important than the general for our local elections.

And yes, I understand that Bernie has had to walk a fine line on most gun right issues to survive in VT for as long as he has. And that he wont likely be a dogged champion for curtailing them should he be elected. But, that isnt my issue with sanders.

I want to see a comprehensive deconstruction of the federal govt in favor of individual and states' rights and responsibilities; and, more importantly, a significant reduction of our debilitating federal debt. Sanders would build up govt and debt at even faster rates in hopes of reaching his delusional goals of a euro-socialist utopia. IMO, euro-style socialism doesnt work, it just survives until it sucks the life out of its population's entrepreneurial spirit and implodes.

And its not because I dont care about those who truly need help and cannot help themselves. Its because this is happening in realtime with the EU right now. Its on its last leg...and its only been around for 15yrs as a monetary union. It is not financially sustainable in the long run to overtax those who produce wealth and employment for the purpose of supporting those who do not. Why work when you dont have to?

That sentiment and the corruption that it spawns is precisely why greece is dead in the water and why spain and italy will soon follow. Desperation and fear is the only reason this hasnt already happened. When it does, and its only a matter of time, their "union" will dissolve. That is not something I seek to replicate here. I see the same end for our union should we choose that path. It just might take longer than 15yrs to manifest.
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By VTNZ
#605892
Mmmmk....but the whole euro-socialism comparison is again a dog whistle in 'Merica that is being regurgitated time and time again by the establishment parties you have previously asserted yourself are largely useless.

What happened to Burlington VT after Bernie's reign as mayor? It cleaned itself up, developed a lake front park setting that was under the threat of private development, albeit public conscious (how do I know? My uncle was one of developers.), and set up programs in place that made BTV by the 90's to today routinely one of the most livable cities in America; one of the best for womens rights; one of best for local community involvement; and yes...he was succeeded by other Progressive mayors, some of whom worked for him previously.

Are there fuckups done? You bet, the city tried to own it's own telecom (power to the people!), and it cost the ratepayer a fair bit. But understand the corporate forces at play that tried to stymie that; and this example was done in the 2000's....but sure, part of a "progressive" ideal.

In theory, local control is good right? But yea, it cost more than it should.

But that leads me this:

Is it any different than:
the bridge to nowhere?

$600 pentagon toilets?

$1 Trillion F-35 Jets with a 47% efficacy rate?

"...it just survives until it sucks the life out of it's populations entrepreneurial spirit and implodes."

Like what? An unregulated banking industry that creates a global financial crisis? Lol...depending on who you talk to, America is experiencing that sentiment because of:

The Gheys
The Muslim President
Selling wedding cakes to gheys
High Taxes (despite plenty of historical evidence to disprove trickle down econ)
Liberals
Tea Partiers
Republicans
Guns
The Kardashians
Big Box Stores
Venture Capitalists
The Supreme Court
Abortions
The 1%
People who don't look like us
Those "47%" (evidently all in the Bernie camp, lol)
Boca Grande Tarpon Tournies
Strike Indicators
Immigrants
Education/educated folks
Unions
The National Security State
The Welfare State (guess which state of those two wastes/spends more by a mind boggling margin)
TPP
The PTA


Seriously, listen to those candidates for Prez...lol...I don't think Euro has a monopoly on that sentiment!

And hey, I hope you're not implying folks who don't vote by mail are slackers or un-patriotic...I mean, shit a few years back we had an election where it was the physical voters noted a flow in the voting machines....thank dog we fixed it in time and the right guy got in...but hey, I'm down with all voters getting an optional mailing option that is consistent across all states during federal elections; but we know that isn't happening.
User avatar
By VTNZ
#605893
Oh, I forgot a biggie for Burlington, VT: The highest number of bars and places serving booze per capita in the US!
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By Bobwhite
#605919
B.M. Barrelcooker wrote:Best I can figure there's only been one perfect man and quite a few folks will even argue that .

So just about any way we look at it we will have to settle for a man or woman that has a few flaws.


I'm done here.

I like and respect the man. I wish there were more like him in our govt.

That is all .
This is how I see it, for what little it's worth...

No one candidate (for anything) is going to represent, endorse, or champion all of my beliefs (or anyone elses). So, I'm left to decide who comes closest. I think we all are.

Ben Carson isn't a perfect man nor candidate. But, it seems to me, that his compass and mine both point in roughly the same direction (give or take 15 or 20 degrees), and that's closer than most... by a long shot.

Oddly enough, Bernie Sanders appeals to me also, though I might add a few more degrees of deviation.

In the end, what appeals to me most about both men is this; I believe they are honest. I believe they are motivated by an honest desire to do what is best for our country... without ego or a quest for power.

That's good enough for me.
User avatar
By BigCliff
#605960
Bobwhite wrote:Ben Carson isn't a perfect man nor candidate. But, it seems to me, that his compass and mine both point in roughly the same direction (give or take 15 or 20 degrees), and that's closer than most... by a long shot.

Oddly enough, Bernie Sanders appeals to me also, though I might add a few more degrees of deviation.

In the end, what appeals to me most about both men is this; I believe they are honest. I believe they are motivated by an honest desire to do what is best for our country... without ego or a quest for power.

That's good enough for me.
Kasich also strikes me this way, and his politics are much closer to the middle of the continuum compared to Carson and Sanders.

You given him a look, Bob?
User avatar
By Bobwhite
#605965
BigCliff wrote:
Bobwhite wrote:Ben Carson isn't a perfect man nor candidate. But, it seems to me, that his compass and mine both point in roughly the same direction (give or take 15 or 20 degrees), and that's closer than most... by a long shot.

Oddly enough, Bernie Sanders appeals to me also, though I might add a few more degrees of deviation.

In the end, what appeals to me most about both men is this; I believe they are honest. I believe they are motivated by an honest desire to do what is best for our country... without ego or a quest for power.

That's good enough for me.
Kasich also strikes me this way, and his politics are much closer to the middle of the continuum compared to Carson and Sanders.

You given him a look, Bob?
Thank you for the direction, Cliff... I'll check him out.
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By Upsetter
#605975
BigCliff wrote:Kasich also strikes me this way, and his politics are much closer to the middle of the continuum compared to Carson and Sanders.
I kinda like kasich. He has some of the best budget balancing bona fides of anybody running. But...he's also a military spender and whether or not he could resist the temptation, Im not sure.
At Monday night’s forum, Kasich positioned himself as a thrifty national security hawk.
“We have about 10 carriers now, my goal would be to get closer to 15. And you’ve got to have the ability to project power when you get there,” Kasich said, before immediately circling back to the budget.
“I don’t know as much about budgets as some people,” he said somewhat sarcastically. “I’ve only written 16 of them. And so it’s all about priorities. It’s all about making sure you get the most you can out of the government that you have.”
Kasich also reiterated that the U.S. would probably need ground troops to defeat the Islamic State, praised New York Sen. Chuck Schumer’s opposition to President Obama’s Iran deal, and called Edward Snowden a “traitor” for releasing information on the government’s wiretapping program.
He also dinged Obama for refusing to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last spring in the weeks before Israel’s elections. “I don’t care if it’s the next day, I’m going to have a cup of coffee,” he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/j ... z3jD35nzxS
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By BigCliff
#606035
Upsetter wrote:
BigCliff wrote:Kasich also strikes me this way, and his politics are much closer to the middle of the continuum compared to Carson and Sanders.
I kinda like kasich. He has some of the best budget balancing bona fides of anybody running. But...he's also a military spender and whether or not he could resist the temptation, Im not sure.
At Monday night’s forum, Kasich positioned himself as a thrifty national security hawk.
“We have about 10 carriers now, my goal would be to get closer to 15. And you’ve got to have the ability to project power when you get there,” Kasich said, before immediately circling back to the budget.
“I don’t know as much about budgets as some people,” he said somewhat sarcastically. “I’ve only written 16 of them. And so it’s all about priorities. It’s all about making sure you get the most you can out of the government that you have.”
Kasich also reiterated that the U.S. would probably need ground troops to defeat the Islamic State, praised New York Sen. Chuck Schumer’s opposition to President Obama’s Iran deal, and called Edward Snowden a “traitor” for releasing information on the government’s wiretapping program.
He also dinged Obama for refusing to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last spring in the weeks before Israel’s elections. “I don’t care if it’s the next day, I’m going to have a cup of coffee,” he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/j ... z3jD35nzxS
They can't all be zingers-
Kasich said. "So if I were, not president, but if I were king in America, I would abolish all teachers' lounges, where they sit together and worry about, 'Woe is us.'"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/j ... er-lounges
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By Bobwhite
#607513
We live in the middle ages; no cable to watch while I push around minerals mixed with linseed oil on stretched canvas.

Let me know your impressions of the GOP debate. Has anyone yet laughed out loud at the clown in the room? Has lightening struck and killed all the hypocrites on the stage? How'd Ben do?
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